James and Jan opened with reflections on parallel spring-cleaning efforts. James shared that he's simultaneously reorganizing his office toward minimalism and building a new project management app for IRIS Cocreative [tag="iris"], guided by the principle of creating space for creation, reflection, and thinking rather than packing in information (07:47).
[technology="Collaboration Management Tools"]
Jan reviewed the latest drafts with several outside perspectives and returned with clear directional feedback (13:27). While the current explorations by Munia are shaping nicely with strong details and softer textures, Jan wants to bring in more of the edgy, bold, straight-to-the-point quality from an earlier editorial-style direction. The concern: the current softness risks reading as "a new idea we're writing about in a magazine this week" rather than a grounded field that's here to stay (15:32).
James proposed resolving this through the business vs. academic balance already in play — the business side can carry the bolder, more radical energy, while the academic side stays quieter and deeper, but both still communicate permanence and rigor (15:51).
Jan and his reviewers agreed the bright yellow, red, and green should function as accent/support colors rather than dominant background treatments (16:59). The darker blue from earlier explorations was singled out as particularly strong for grounding — especially as a background for writing-heavy sections.
The agreed direction:
James noted that colors within illustrations are harder to change later, but all website colors will be built as variables in Webflow [tag="webflow"], allowing global updates from a single place (21:09).
Munia's first pass at the academic side introduces serif fonts on clean white backgrounds. Jan raised a concern from his reviewers: making the scholarly page feel too visually different could create a mixed identity across the site (23:03). His preference — keep a consistent main frame throughout, and let individual papers or citations bring in variation (e.g., a paper title shown as an image within a consistent container).
James agreed: use the serif font in reserved, intentional ways as an accent across the site rather than as a wholesale switch on one page. Color usage should stay consistent site-wide, with variation introduced through visualized content rather than structural shifts (24:01).
James opened the logo conversation, noting it hadn't been directly addressed yet (30:28). Jan reflected on the unique challenge — Pro-Social Market Economy is a concept, not an organization — but agreed a logo makes sense to explore.
The conceptual anchor Jan articulated: the missing link between organization and planet (32:07). Individuals connect to organizations, but organizations rarely connect meaningfully to the planet. The logo should communicate:
Critical guardrail from Jan: it must not read as a green activist page. This is fundamentally about economic performance management for practitioners, and about how the market economy operates from a policy and academic standpoint (34:55).
For Thursday, James will explore:
James will send Jan the site map in two formats: a clickable online version and imported into Figma, where Jan can leave comments on specific pages (27:04). Munia is now consolidating all latest work in a dedicated "latest" board within Figma, with older iterations moved aside as new work develops (30:28). Jan is encouraged to leave comments directly on the boards indicating which pages, details, or aspects resonate most.
James Redenbaugh
Jan Pfister
James and Jan opened with reflections on parallel spring-cleaning efforts. James shared that he's simultaneously reorganizing his office toward minimalism and building a new project management app for IRIS Cocreative [tag="iris"], guided by the principle of creating space for creation, reflection, and thinking rather than packing in information (07:47).
[technology="Collaboration Management Tools"]
Jan reviewed the latest drafts with several outside perspectives and returned with clear directional feedback (13:27). While the current explorations by Munia are shaping nicely with strong details and softer textures, Jan wants to bring in more of the edgy, bold, straight-to-the-point quality from an earlier editorial-style direction. The concern: the current softness risks reading as "a new idea we're writing about in a magazine this week" rather than a grounded field that's here to stay (15:32).
James proposed resolving this through the business vs. academic balance already in play — the business side can carry the bolder, more radical energy, while the academic side stays quieter and deeper, but both still communicate permanence and rigor (15:51).
Jan and his reviewers agreed the bright yellow, red, and green should function as accent/support colors rather than dominant background treatments (16:59). The darker blue from earlier explorations was singled out as particularly strong for grounding — especially as a background for writing-heavy sections.
The agreed direction:
James noted that colors within illustrations are harder to change later, but all website colors will be built as variables in Webflow [tag="webflow"], allowing global updates from a single place (21:09).
Munia's first pass at the academic side introduces serif fonts on clean white backgrounds. Jan raised a concern from his reviewers: making the scholarly page feel too visually different could create a mixed identity across the site (23:03). His preference — keep a consistent main frame throughout, and let individual papers or citations bring in variation (e.g., a paper title shown as an image within a consistent container).
James agreed: use the serif font in reserved, intentional ways as an accent across the site rather than as a wholesale switch on one page. Color usage should stay consistent site-wide, with variation introduced through visualized content rather than structural shifts (24:01).
James opened the logo conversation, noting it hadn't been directly addressed yet (30:28). Jan reflected on the unique challenge — Pro-Social Market Economy is a concept, not an organization — but agreed a logo makes sense to explore.
The conceptual anchor Jan articulated: the missing link between organization and planet (32:07). Individuals connect to organizations, but organizations rarely connect meaningfully to the planet. The logo should communicate:
Critical guardrail from Jan: it must not read as a green activist page. This is fundamentally about economic performance management for practitioners, and about how the market economy operates from a policy and academic standpoint (34:55).
For Thursday, James will explore:
James will send Jan the site map in two formats: a clickable online version and imported into Figma, where Jan can leave comments on specific pages (27:04). Munia is now consolidating all latest work in a dedicated "latest" board within Figma, with older iterations moved aside as new work develops (30:28). Jan is encouraged to leave comments directly on the boards indicating which pages, details, or aspects resonate most.
James Redenbaugh
Jan Pfister
Send site map to Jan in both clickable online format and imported into Figma for commenting
James to send Jan the site map right after the call in two formats: a clickable online version and imported into Figma so Jan can leave comments on specific pages. Timestamp: 26:58
Explore bolder font variations and sharper-corner treatments for Thursday review
James to revive bolder primary font direction and introduce sharper corners to move away from the current heavily-rounded feel and bring more editorial impact to the design. Timestamp: 36:00
Bring darker blue back as grounding background color and reposition bright accent colors as supporting details only
James to update color hierarchy so primary backgrounds use dark blue, white, gray, or image, and bright colors (yellow, red, green) are used only as accents in illustrations, tags, borders, and card details. Timestamp: 19:30
Develop initial logo iterations reflecting the economy-planet connection without green-activist framing for Thursday
James to create first logo explorations anchored around the missing link between organization and planet — communicating planet connection, cultural change, and economic performance management — while explicitly avoiding any green-activist visual framing. Timestamp: 36:00
Review and comment on site map in Figma once received from James
Jan to review the site map James sends after the call and leave comments directly in Figma indicating which pages, details, or aspects resonate most. Timestamp: 27:41
Provide feedback on design iterations and logo directions ahead of Thursday meeting
Jan to review updated design explorations including bolder font and sharper-corner treatments, revised color hierarchy, and initial logo directions, and share feedback before Thursday's session. Available for interim feedback via WhatsApp during first week of travel. Timestamp: 36:50
Design and develop an 8-page informational website for the Pro-Social Market Economy paradigm. Site serves as credible resource for executives, researchers, practitioners, and policymakers explaining how economic performance emerges from relational quality. Core structure includes: Home (paradigm hub with world-building metaphor visualization featuring weaving/tapestry metaphor to illustrate relational fields), Explore the Paradigm (interactive overview), Research and Resources (CMS-driven publications with chronological mapping of intellectual history from Ostrom through Wilson to current work, external journal links and PDFs), Practice and Policy (CDP diagnostics - four design mechanisms functioning as both diagnostic and interventionist tools), People, News and Events (simple calendar), Get Involved, and Evaluation and Tools. Built in Webflow with Airtable backend synced via Whalesync for easy content management. HOMEPAGE ANIMATION CONCEPT (as of 2026-06-26): Three-layer attention-capturing animation illustrating paradigm shift through identification across scales - (1) Planet at base moving from depleted to regenerative, (2) Individual at center moving from isolated to connected, (3) Organization/system structures on periphery moving from rigid grid to fluid interconnected. Animation should make visible how individual identification shifts from self/immediate team to successively larger groups (organization, market, planet), dissolving trade-offs between scales (38:14, 41:06). VISUAL FRAMEWORKS: Five Scales of Relationship (individual, group, organization, market, planetary) and Seven Performance Domains (financial, compliance, sustainability, well-being, resilience, agility, societal effects) as foundational visualization structures (06:00). Performance domains animate functionally not just as overlay swap - well-being's jagged graph leveling, resilience shifting from shattered to flexible, agility from linear to infinity loop, societal effects from walled off to radiating. Terminology refined to "effects on performance dimensions" rather than "what is measured" to clarify management framework vs measurement tool focus (43:00). VISUAL STRATEGY: Complementary aesthetics within one identity - scholarly sections with grounded research feel (serif headlines, typeset aesthetic evoking academic conferences), practitioner sections with fresh/modern feel (sans serif headlines, clean blue/red color palette), achieved through subtle shifts in typography and color rather than separate designs. Strategic nature imagery as supportive presence. Four design mechanisms need clear icons/visualizations to make diagnostic/interventionist framework approachable. CONCRETE GRAPHICS REQUIRED: Five scales and seven performance domains need recognizable symbolic elements rather than abstract treatments - practitioners arriving at page must immediately understand content (33:00, 39:53). Planet illustration style (depleted → regenerative) established as appropriate concreteness level. Sophisticated presentation maintaining recognizable symbols for people, groups, structures. KEY MESSAGING: This is cultural evolution of existing market economy, not alternative economy - markets where pro-sociality becomes driving force of value creation. Site must function as experience of paradigm shift itself - visitors should feel contrast between stressful fragile world of dominant paradigm and stable peaceful world of pro-social paradigm. Performance dimension (creativity, resilience, sustainability, economic outcomes) must remain central throughout. Content must be AI-accessible with accurate structure for indexing. TIMELINE CORRECTION (as of 2026-07-05): Heavy design work continues through next week to finalize direction before Jan's three-week holiday (July 13 - August 2). Build phase in Webflow starts during Jan's absence with locked design. August 4-8 continues build and refinement. August 11-15 for review, feedback rounds, and launch targeting end of August funding deadline (08:38, 14:20). Site map with wireframes to be generated for Jan's review before departure, flagging missing content areas (42:24). All content highly editable in Webflow allowing font/color/parameter adjustments after Jan returns (14:20). DESIGN DIRECTION (as of 2026-07-05): Background stays bright white rather than trending darker, referencing Google search page brightness and bold saturated primary colors (20:08, 24:40). Color palette confirmed: red, green, blue, yellow with "bold and fresh" as guiding direction (29:20, 37:00). Site tells story of old paradigm (darker) giving way to new pro-social paradigm (bright, fresh) requiring strong contrast (25:56). Subtle texture to be added to solid color blocks for depth, video integration in key places for aliveness including aerial earth imagery (38:41, 40:37). Real photos and people approved especially for corporate/executive audience (32:31). Four-mechanism figure needs more vibrant colors (31:48). DESIGN REFINEMENT (as of 2026-07-08): Jan's external reviewers provided clear directional feedback - current explorations by Munia are strong on details and softer textures but need more edgy, bold, straight-to-the-point quality from earlier editorial-style direction to communicate grounded field that's here to stay rather than new idea in magazine (13:27, 15:32). Bright yellow, red, green repositioned as accent/support colors only rather than dominant backgrounds (16:59). Darker blue singled out as particularly strong for grounding, especially as background for writing-heavy sections. Primary backgrounds: dark blue, white, gray, or image. Bright colors used as accents in illustrations, tags, borders, card details. Overall goal: more concrete, less abstract. Typography strategy refined - serif font used in reserved, intentional ways as accent across site rather than wholesale switch on one page. Color usage stays consistent site-wide with variation introduced through visualized content rather than structural shifts (24:01). All website colors built as variables in Webflow allowing global updates (21:09). Consistent main frame throughout site with variation brought in through individual papers/citations shown as images within consistent containers (23:03). NEXT ITERATION DIRECTION (as of 2026-07-08): Exploring bolder fonts possibly reviving earlier bolder primary font, sharper corners moving away from heavily-rounded feel to introduce more impact, darker blue brought back as grounding background color, bright colors repositioned as accents only (36:00). Logo development initiated reflecting planet-economy connection without green-activist framing (36:00). AI OPTIMIZATION: Content structured for AI readability through AIO/GEO (generative engine optimization) - properly structured headlines, tags, semantic markup, crawlable linked research. Research papers hosted directly on site when external sources block bots while maintaining links to originals. Ensures "pro-social market economy" becomes clearly defined and discoverable across AI-driven search (44:00, 46:24). NEXT MILESTONE: 100% alignment on style guide, agreed direction on graphics/illustrations, and sign-off on homepage design by July 11 meeting before Jan's departure (17:44).
Develop comprehensive brand identity for Pro-Social Market Economy including visual language, typography, color palette, and aesthetic direction that balances credibility for business executives with accessibility for broader audiences. Process includes brand questionnaire exploration, metaphor development (flat world/round world, parallel worlds), philosophical stream mapping, and creation of visual precedents. Visual direction should communicate paradigm shift from individual optimization to relational management while feeling fresh, professional, and modern (not dated/yellowed). Core brand metaphor: weaving/tapestry representing relational fields - adaptable across icons, illustrations, and diagrams in both subtle and bold expressions. COLOR DIRECTION (as of 2026-07-05): Primary palette confirmed as red, green, blue, yellow with bold, saturated tones inspired by Google's bright, simple, inviting quality (24:40, 29:20). Blue as primary entrepreneurial tone with red and gold accents. Avoiding excess green to prevent "green ideology" signaling - reserve green only for specific sustainability contexts. Bright, clean, uniform white backgrounds required - no trending darker (20:08). Yellow adjusted toward more saturated, sunny tone rather than muted/dark (34:15). "Bold and fresh" established as guiding direction (37:00). Strong contrast between old paradigm (darker) and new pro-social paradigm (bright, fresh) essential to visual storytelling (25:56). COLOR REFINEMENT (as of 2026-07-08): Bright yellow, red, green repositioned as accent/support colors only rather than dominant backgrounds following Jan's external reviewer feedback (16:59). Darker blue singled out as particularly strong for grounding, especially as background for writing-heavy sections. Primary backgrounds established as dark blue, white, gray, or image. Bright colors used as accents in illustrations, tags, borders, card details. Overall goal: more concrete, less abstract. All website colors built as variables in Webflow allowing global updates (21:09). TYPOGRAPHY STRATEGY (as of 2026-07-01): Variable fonts unified into working Figma style guide (08:23). Moondial Narrow variable sans-serif for modern, versatile, Scandinavian feel with precise weight control. Paired with clean, readable variable serif font suited to academic dimension. Differentiate scholarly vs business sides through font pairing - serif headlines for scholarly sections (evoking academic conference, typeset, paper-like feel), sans serif headlines for business/practitioner sections. Body fonts remain consistent across both to maintain visual unity. Tags and labels consistent throughout. TYPOGRAPHY REFINEMENT (as of 2026-07-08): Serif font repositioned as reserved, intentional accent across site rather than wholesale switch on scholarly page to avoid mixed identity concern (23:03). Color usage stays consistent site-wide with variation introduced through visualized content (individual papers/citations shown as images within consistent containers) rather than structural shifts (24:01). Exploring bolder fonts possibly reviving earlier bolder primary font and sharper corners moving away from heavily-rounded feel to introduce more impact (36:00). IMAGERY APPROACH: Moving away from AI-generated imagery toward original illustrative language. Monya developing simple, geometric domain illustrations that lend themselves to animation - connections forming, geometries shifting, layers expanding on hover rather than static image swaps (03:00). Hybrid strategy using real photography for landscapes, mountains, Earth imagery where authenticity matters - approved especially for corporate/executive audience (32:31). Strategic use of real imagery and video for bringing paradigm shift to life deeper on page (38:41, 40:37). Avoiding overly "stocky" feel while leveraging appropriate photography and video for dimensionality. Hero section should not overwhelm with imagery - geometry is inclusive and lets people find own meaning. Real imagery, intelligently generated visuals, and curated stock deeper on page to make paradigm shift tangible (12:10, 20:19). Subtle texture to be added to solid color blocks for depth (38:41). VISUAL REQUIREMENTS: Concrete rather than abstract - practitioners must immediately understand content without heavy cognitive work (33:00). Recognizable symbols (people, groups, structures) while maintaining sophisticated presentation. Planet illustration (depleted → regenerative) established as right level of concreteness and clarity. Nature imagery (trees, water, ecosystems) as supportive presence connecting to sustainability. Circular graphics preferred over squared grids to represent how relationships operate. Figures should almost always include humans. Must feel distinct from Prosocial World's dark aesthetic. More contrast and brightness needed - avoiding muted/dark palettes from previous IRIS projects. STYLE DIRECTION CONVERGENCE: Business side treatment from "relational field" direction (blue/red color, clean font) paired with scholarly side treatment featuring typeset aesthetic. Eight homepage mockup variations developed spanning conventional to experimental to seed visual field. Latest homepage design from Munya represents "a real step forward" with clean, clear tone (19:00). Jan to review in Figma with direct commenting access and share with 2-3 collaborators for broader input (13:11, 48:12). DESIGN DIRECTION SHIFT (as of 2026-07-08): Jan's external reviewers confirmed current explorations by Munia are shaping nicely with strong details and softer textures but need more edgy, bold, straight-to-the-point quality from earlier editorial-style direction. Concern that current softness risks reading as "new idea we're writing about in a magazine this week" rather than grounded field that's here to stay (13:27, 15:32). Resolved through business vs. academic balance - business side carries bolder, more radical energy while academic side stays quieter and deeper, both communicating permanence and rigor (15:51). Next iteration explores bolder fonts, sharper corners, darker blue grounding (36:00). NEXT MILESTONE: 100% alignment on style guide by July 11 meeting before Jan's departure (17:44).
Generate comprehensive site map with wireframes showing full content structure for 8-page PSME website, allowing Jan to click through and review before his July 13 departure. Missing content areas (examples, research references, resource links) will be flagged with yellow borders so Jan knows what to provide (42:24). Includes audience routing integration (researcher/educator/policymaker pathways) into homepage flow beyond pure visual design (22:44). Site map supports both human review and AI optimization - ensuring proper semantic structure, crawlable linked research, and hosting of research papers directly on site when external sources block bots while maintaining links to originals (44:00, 46:24). Content structure must convey paradigm shift clearly while remaining AI-readable for GEO/AIO (generative engine optimization). Site map will be delivered in two formats: clickable online version and imported into Figma for direct commenting (26:58, 27:04). Munia consolidating all latest work in dedicated "latest" board within Figma with older iterations moved aside (30:28). Jan encouraged to leave comments directly on boards indicating which pages, details, or aspects resonate most. Deliverable needed before Jan's departure for content review and gap identification.
Develop logo for Pro-Social Market Economy concept that communicates the missing link between organization and planet (32:07). Logo must convey: planet connection, cultural change (shifting norms to take care of planet), and economic performance as primary frame with planetary consideration as lens. Critical requirement: must not read as green activist page - this is fundamentally about economic performance management for practitioners and how market economy operates from policy/academic standpoint (34:55). Logo reflects that PSME is a concept rather than organization but needs visual identity for credibility and recognition (30:28). Initial iterations exploring planet-economy connection without green-activist framing to be developed for Thursday 2026-07-11 review (36:00). Organizational identity serves to ground grounded field that's here to stay rather than new idea in magazine (15:32).
00:00:02
James Redenbaugh: This meeting is being recorded.
00:05:42
Jan Pfister: Hi, James. Can't hear you.
00:05:58
James Redenbaugh: How about now?
00:05:59
Jan Pfister: Yeah, now it's good. Sorry for the meeting. Had to be decided. What's to be done the next four weeks. So.
00:06:11
James Redenbaugh: How are you doing? You're live before a little break.
00:06:15
Jan Pfister: Yeah. Good. Can't wait. Can't wait for it. But still don't know whether you see this. No, you can't see it. It's a board full of stuff.
00:06:27
James Redenbaugh: Things to do. Yes.
00:06:29
Jan Pfister: But it's gonna. It's looking better.
00:06:31
James Redenbaugh: Nice.
00:06:33
Jan Pfister: Yep. How are you?
00:06:37
James Redenbaugh: I'm doing good. You can't see it, really, but I'm in a deep office reorganization. I decided that I'm gonna get rid of everything in my office that I don't need, where I used to have just, like, boxes of art supplies and materials and books. And I'll keep the books, but I'm just gonna go minimalist and move everything to the basement. So I've been in the process of clearing out at the same time that I'm building this new project management app for us. So it feels like it's not spring anymore, but spring cleaning.
00:07:26
Jan Pfister: Yeah, it's reset. Yeah. Actually, I did the same last two weekends, and I've also had a big cleanup with about six huge trash bags that left, which is kind of nice. It's actually a really nice thing to throw away things.
00:07:41
James Redenbaugh: Yeah. Yeah, Definitely clean.
00:07:45
Jan Pfister: Yep.
00:07:47
James Redenbaugh: Makes space. Yeah. And actually that's kind of the. The guiding principle of the project management system is to, like, create space for creation and not try to pack in all this information. Have the information there if you need it, but to presence primarily the space to. To create and think and reflect and things like that.
00:08:17
Jan Pfister: So is that on your side or then it's also for the customer? Definitely. Yeah, both. So the customer is kind of everything in one.
00:08:25
James Redenbaugh: Yeah, in one place. Exactly. So, yep. Yeah, we can check in today. We can take as much time as we need. I'm excited to show you the. The directions that we've been exploring, and I think you're going to like them.
00:08:56
Jan Pfister: Yeah, hope so. I also now did properly log into this system and went through the different drafts that we had along the way. And also the most recent. I've also discussed it with few people to hear their opinions. So I have also.
00:09:17
James Redenbaugh: Yeah.
00:09:18
Jan Pfister: Some ideas.
00:09:19
James Redenbaugh: Great.
00:09:20
Jan Pfister: Don't know where we want to start.
00:09:24
James Redenbaugh: Have you seen these here? Have you seen the latest designs?
00:09:34
Jan Pfister: And not these small ones, because it was kind of. So. So it's all on that. And then you need to zoom in that's the.
00:09:43
James Redenbaugh: Yeah, yeah. So Munia did these actually taking her diagrams and playing with. Making them more realistic and illustrative. And this is kind of a whole. A spectrum that we can explore. She also took the Google inspiration and did another pass at the colors. And. And so those are at play here. And I really like these. And then looking at these, Some of these are really. Are really neat, I find. I really like the. The texture and the feeling, what they communicate. The ones to the left, I think.
00:10:41
Jan Pfister: Are pondering now because I have just been going through this and somehow didn't. Maybe I have trouble navigating this thing just. Just because I have it open here as well. I just want to check whether I'm now in the right version. So 50%.
00:11:03
James Redenbaugh: I see you.
00:11:04
Jan Pfister: Are you see me here? Okay.
00:11:06
James Redenbaugh: Yeah.
00:11:06
Jan Pfister: So how do I zoom this? Zooming. I have to. To type in on our tube control.
00:11:14
James Redenbaugh: Yeah. Do you use a mouse or a trackpad?
00:11:17
Jan Pfister: Yes, a mouse.
00:11:19
James Redenbaugh: So if you hold control and scroll in and out on the mouse wheel, then you can zoom in and out easily.
00:11:30
Jan Pfister: Oh, okay.
00:11:32
James Redenbaugh: And then you can click the mouse wheel to drag the canvas.
00:11:43
Jan Pfister: Okay, now get it. Yeah, that's.
00:11:44
James Redenbaugh: Now.
00:11:44
Jan Pfister: Pity that I would have showed that. Yeah, that looks cool. Actually, before we go there, I think I have just a bit of feedback for you.
00:12:01
James Redenbaugh: Sure.
00:12:02
Jan Pfister: And let me go, because I think this is more detailed than the bigger thing. So how do I do this now? Do I share?
00:12:13
James Redenbaugh: You can share if you'd like.
00:12:30
Jan Pfister: So. And now. So it takes a bit of time to load it or is it.
00:12:58
James Redenbaugh: Yes. Strange. It's blurry. It's coming in.
00:13:09
Jan Pfister: I guess it just. Yeah, I didn't do that. Maybe it's. I guess it's not that. The page afterwards. Right. Like this, that. That it loads slowly.
00:13:19
James Redenbaugh: That's kind of a. Yeah, it's just that the app. I haven't really seen that with Figma before, though.
00:13:27
Jan Pfister: But yeah, so what I went through these different, you know, versions that we had and with the people I discussed, there is agreement that this is really nice here. Starting to shape really nicely. But then there's also this here. And something that I like with this is, you know, the. The other one is really great. The details, everything, how it has been done. So this has not been developed. But something I like here is this, you know, straight to the point, quite bold. Do you see what I mean?
00:14:12
James Redenbaugh: Yeah.
00:14:13
Jan Pfister: So this is kind of like a bit like an article or something.
00:14:17
James Redenbaugh: Mm.
00:14:22
Jan Pfister: And this here is much more softer. I see this. Right. So this. And I Wonder whether we could bring in somehow a bit more of this. Bit more edgy, sharper.
00:14:48
James Redenbaugh: Yeah.
00:14:55
Jan Pfister: Kind of a combination of those two. But you know what?
00:15:01
James Redenbaugh: I.
00:15:01
Jan Pfister: So what I really like here is kind of the color, this blue. It's like, boom, here it is that you can go and search for it.
00:15:15
James Redenbaugh: And.
00:15:20
Jan Pfister: I mean, here, this. Otherwise, it's good. It's just a different impression. What do you think?
00:15:32
James Redenbaugh: I think we should play with it and see what it looks like in context. The earlier example does feel very editorial, and that can be good.
00:15:49
Jan Pfister: Yeah.
00:15:51
James Redenbaugh: But we definitely want to communicate that this is a. A grounded field that's here to stay and not a new idea that we're writing about in a magazine this week. Yeah, agree. And. And we kind of want both. And maybe we can play with how to. How to achieve that through the design. And. And maybe that's the balance between the business side and the. And the academic that we've talked about. Maybe the business can be bolder, and then the academic can be quieter and deeper still bolder, still radical. But here to stay. But, yeah, I like the feedback. I do like that example.
00:16:57
Jan Pfister: That gives you a bit of an idea.
00:16:59
James Redenbaugh: Right.
00:16:59
Jan Pfister: So from that clarity that I'm speaking always about. And then another one was with the color. So now I like. Before we go into it, it's really. These colors, I think are great. So, for example, now we have this one part that is quite yellow, the big part there. And there was a bit of discussion whether yellow, red, and green should be more maybe support colors. You know that when there's an article on the side, the yellow or round or. But not. Not get so strong. Yeah, that was one. And then generally the feedback was. Yeah, it should be as concrete as possible, which we are now working on. Like, not. Not too abstract from the things that. Yeah, so that's it.
00:17:51
James Redenbaugh: Cool. Yeah. I wonder. So we have this bright color palette over here, which is a good. They're great accent colors. And obviously we're using blue more than the other colors. I. I definitely agree that the. We played with using kind of image background in there, but maybe yellow isn't the right color for this kind of background, but maybe it's not this blue either. I don't think we'd need too much,.
00:18:43
Jan Pfister: Actually, that blue from that other one that is quite a bit darker, I just showed you.
00:18:52
James Redenbaugh: Yeah. From here.
00:18:56
Jan Pfister: Yeah. But that looks also quite good in. At least for the writing, probably as a background. Quite strong. Yeah, I think that looks.
00:19:30
James Redenbaugh: Yeah, I think that we could have. We could bring this darker blue back in. And then use these four colors more as an accent. So backgrounds are either dark blue or white or gray or image. And then these colors can be used in accents of different ways in illustration, in these tags, in borders, maybe in cards like this. I think that that could help to ground. Does that feel better?
00:20:30
Jan Pfister: Yeah, I think that that looks. Yeah, that blue is nice.
00:20:37
James Redenbaugh: Yeah. Great. And then I'm not sure if you've seen this here. I'm gonna do that as well.
00:21:04
Jan Pfister: So tough to decide about all these colors and things.
00:21:09
James Redenbaugh: Always. Yeah. And just so you know, I mean, colors in illustrations are going to be harder to change, but when we build the website in webflow, the colors are all variables. So if we want to change one or tweak one, we just change it in one place and it'll change across the whole. The whole website.
00:21:40
Jan Pfister: Yeah. Okay.
00:21:46
James Redenbaugh: I'm just playing here a little bit with. Creating a bit of a layered feeling at the bottom here. But this is Munia's first pass at the. The academic side of things. So here we see the serif fonts coming into play. Still very clean, still using the same colors, white background. We can decide if we want to keep a white background on the academic side or we have played with like a beige or other color as the background.
00:22:54
Jan Pfister: 1. One thing that was also discussion, you know, to whether it makes sense to have the scholarly page quite different from.
00:23:03
James Redenbaugh: The other font wise.
00:23:06
Jan Pfister: Or whether this kind of creates a bit of a mixed identity on the page.
00:23:11
James Redenbaugh: Yeah.
00:23:13
Jan Pfister: Whether still kind of, kind of having a consistent main theme, but then. But then maybe inputs of individual papers that kind of have a different font, kind of. That kind of. That the frame remains the same consistently throughout the page.
00:23:31
James Redenbaugh: Yeah.
00:23:33
Jan Pfister: Because I guess otherwise it could look. Meaning. So if you use a paper, let's say if we could have a paper title, maybe the original, you know, copied in as a kind of a picture and then something about that.
00:24:01
James Redenbaugh: Yeah, yeah, I think you're right that we want them primarily to be consistent. These days it's common to have an accent font that's a serif to contrast a sans serif primary font. But maybe it doesn't make sense to use the accent font on one page entirely in the primary font on another page entirely. I think that they, you know, and every page of the website, we want to be a little different and to have its own purpose and feeling and we want it to feel like a cohesive whole. But maybe we just use this serif font in. Much more reserved ways and in key Ways. And we could also use it on other pages if we want to call something out in a special way.
00:25:20
Jan Pfister: Yeah.
00:25:30
James Redenbaugh: So we can play with that. And color wise, do you think that we should stay consistent?
00:25:43
Jan Pfister: Yeah, I think it's. It's probably best to stay consistent. And then having. When there is. Yeah. Something visualized that there are variations.
00:26:01
James Redenbaugh: Cool. And.
00:26:06
Jan Pfister: Yeah. And I guess that's what I take from the other page. Just that kind of clarity for the eye so that it's.
00:26:13
James Redenbaugh: It's.
00:26:13
Jan Pfister: You get a net, you see it, you understand it. You know, kind of not too much. I think that's. That's really good.
00:26:25
James Redenbaugh: Okay.
00:26:26
Jan Pfister: Yeah. I think that with the colors. Works in a way, isn't it? It gives a fresh touch with.
00:26:34
James Redenbaugh: Yeah. Great.
00:26:40
Jan Pfister: Yep. And then actually, I think you. You promised to send this. This what? Site map with all the contents that we have so far.
00:26:55
James Redenbaugh: Yes.
00:26:58
Jan Pfister: So that I can look it through before. Before. So this week.
00:27:04
James Redenbaugh: Yeah. I can send you that right when we get off the call. And I'm thinking, actually, Well, what would be most helpful for you? And I can do both. I can send it to you in a format that you can click through online. But do you want me to also put it into Sigma so that you could comment on it on specific parts?
00:27:41
Jan Pfister: So if you put it here, then it's. How does it work?
00:27:44
James Redenbaugh: Then?
00:27:45
Jan Pfister: It's a lot of pages.
00:27:46
James Redenbaugh: Or I would just. I would lay it out like. Like these. Imagine that these are different pages and you can see each page and some are going to be longer than others. And then you can use the comment tool.
00:28:07
Jan Pfister: Yeah. So would that be the best to work with?
00:28:11
James Redenbaugh: I think so.
00:28:12
Jan Pfister: Yeah.
00:28:13
James Redenbaugh: Yeah. If you want to make comments on a specific page for us.
00:28:21
Jan Pfister: Yeah.
00:28:22
James Redenbaugh: Cool.
00:28:23
Jan Pfister: So that's from. That you take together all the information you got from the original document and the discussions we had.
00:28:32
James Redenbaugh: Yep.
00:28:33
Jan Pfister: Yeah.
00:28:36
James Redenbaugh: And just, you know, wireframing, not putting the design in, but showing all the content we have.
00:28:44
Jan Pfister: Yeah. Yeah. And can you show me again this. These different figures here that we have.
00:28:53
James Redenbaugh: Yes. Yeah. And now that you know how to zoom, you can spend some more time with these. And you'll see as we go to the right, we get less detail, but we get more color expression. And then we can see Munya's combined them up here. And I think that these are really cool. These are coming out really nice. Yeah.
00:29:36
Jan Pfister: No, that looks really cool. I think I just need a. It's good to have it there. And then I can think of it and discuss it. I mean, looks. This looks already Much better.
00:29:49
James Redenbaugh: Yeah. Yeah. So feel free to leave comments on these. You can say, you know, like, oh, I really like where, you know, this page feels the best. Or, you know, maybe we can bring in an aspect of this over here. There's a lot of little details.
00:30:17
Jan Pfister: So on this whole board here in this figma, how do I know what's new and where I should go and see?
00:30:28
James Redenbaugh: So right now Munya's put everything that's in the latest. That's latest in this latest board. Yeah. So we'll keep that as we make new stuff. We'll probably keep things in here and we'll move older stuff to the left. I also wanted to talk to you about these. She's starting on logo possibilities and these are just points of inspiration. But I wanted to talk to you about a logo because that's something that we haven't really talked about yet.
00:31:04
Jan Pfister: Yes.
00:31:08
James Redenbaugh: So what are your thoughts on a logo? Do we need a logo? Do you have any ideas about it? Do you have an existing logo? What do you think?
00:31:22
Jan Pfister: Yeah, so the. It's kind of this funny thing when it's. When it's in a way a concept and not an organization, you know, pro social market economy as such. But yeah, I think makes sense to have a logo or to at least try out different options.
00:31:51
James Redenbaugh: Yeah. Do you have any ideas or preferences about. About what that should be like?
00:32:07
Jan Pfister: So I guess it should be again quite easily visible what the point is of all this. And the point is some say it's quite quickly about planet. So if I think if I put it in a nutshell, then why did we even think of this is because there is always the link between the individual and the organization, but not so much between the organization and the planet.
00:32:38
James Redenbaugh: Yeah.
00:32:40
Jan Pfister: So probably something along those lines. Yes. So that's kind of planet connection. Yeah. So something pro social market economy.
00:32:56
James Redenbaugh: So you.
00:32:57
Jan Pfister: It is about culture very strongly. Essentially it's just about cultural change. So changing the norms.
00:33:10
James Redenbaugh: Yeah.
00:33:10
Jan Pfister: To make. Changing the norms to take care of the planet. So yeah, optically. So what do you suggest? Do you think it is useful to have a logo when it's, you know, it's kind of. The point here is not the pro social market economy. Right. The point for practitioners is kind of pro social performance management. So how do you manage so that you get more out of. Is about strongly about economic performance then from a more academic conceptual policy matter, it is that you need to change the market economy how it operates and from an academic standpoint, how we study it.
00:34:01
James Redenbaugh: Yeah, I think. I Think we should have some, Some kind of logo. Could be good. I'm just going to take this is combined. I mean this is both too, too simple and too complex. But.
00:34:48
Jan Pfister: Yeah, but, but I think something in this direction.
00:34:51
James Redenbaugh: Yeah, yeah.
00:34:55
Jan Pfister: And. And again, it should always. I. I guess the always the risk is that it becomes. I mean to always keep this in mind. It shouldn't become a green activist page. It should be an economic performance page.
00:35:11
James Redenbaugh: Yeah.
00:35:11
Jan Pfister: That considers the planet. So kind of just from the.
00:35:19
James Redenbaugh: Yeah, yeah, got it. Cool. Well, we can, we can definitely roll with that and the logo something, you know, it's important. But we'll continue to play with it as we develop the site. We can show you some iterations on that on Thursday and by Thursday we should have a really good sense of the style that we want to. Want to roll with. I want to play with making these fonts bolder according to this suggestions seeing what that might look like or bringing this font back in and using that as our. As our primary font. And also there's a boldness to the sharp corners here as well. Everything in the current iteration is very rounded. So maybe we want to play with sharpening. Sharpening it up to have more of this impact. We'll see.
00:36:50
Jan Pfister: Yeah. So if you could have some variation of this. Yeah, yeah. Okay, sounds good. So what do you need from me before. So yeah, this site map and that I can comment on it and. And then also. Yeah. So that we decide on Thursday. And then of course also along the way if there is something, you know, kind of at least in the first week you want to have feedback, then only we can by WhatsApp, you can still send me of course something and I can give a comment to leave it. But I think it's good if you get it done on Thursday as much as possible.
00:37:41
James Redenbaugh: Yeah, sounds good. Where are you going by the way? Are you going on any adventure?
00:37:50
Jan Pfister: I go to Switzerland from. So we'll spend there some bit more than a week. Go also to the Italian part of Switzerland and then we'll go for a week to Mallorca, to Calador. So this is quite touristy but quite nice part of the island. Hopefully. I think now I got stuck somehow.
00:38:21
James Redenbaugh: Wonderful.
00:38:22
Jan Pfister: Yep. So hopefully it's not going to be 40 degrees.
00:38:28
James Redenbaugh: Yeah.
00:38:31
Jan Pfister: Somehow it got stuck here on my side. But yeah, then let's talk on Thursday.
00:38:41
James Redenbaugh: Sounds good.
00:38:42
Jan Pfister: Cool, I look forward to it. Looks starts reshaping nicely.
00:38:46
James Redenbaugh: Great. Okay, Jan, I'll talk to you soon.
00:38:49
Jan Pfister: Talk then.
00:38:49
James Redenbaugh: Bye bye.
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