James opened by sharing that designer Monya is now more involved in the project, collecting additional color, layout, and graphic inspiration based on their prior conversations (02:35). The team is expanding the color palette and moving away from AI-generated imagery toward an original illustrative language for the four domains.
Monya has developed simple, geometric ways to illustrate the domain concepts, replacing the earlier AI-generated exploratory images. James highlighted that these simplified illustrations lend themselves well to animation — allowing connections to form, geometries to shift, and layers to expand on hover rather than just swapping between static images (03:00). He's also experimenting with overlaying the different domains into a single composite image, noting the circular quality could reinforce the scientific, microscope/telescope-like framing of Jan's approach.
[technology="Parametric Geometric Interfaces"]
James introduced two variable fonts he believes work well together:
These have been unified into a working style guide in Figma that will continue to evolve (08:23).
Jan raised a consistent concern: the current palette feels too dark and greenish, whereas prior conversations had landed on something brighter — closer to a Google-style palette of bright green, white, and black (07:06). He was careful to note this isn't about imitating Google, but about achieving a bright, straightforward appearance they had aligned on previously. James acknowledged that the current explorations use limited color and confirmed more color variety will come into play as the direction sharpens.
A significant portion of the conversation revolved around the balance between diagrammatic geometry and more literal, real-world imagery (12:10).
Jan recalled earlier discussions about making the paradigm shift feel visible and tangible — for example, showing people working together in an office with light playing across the scene, almost like a short video sequence. James agreed but proposed a strategic split:
James referenced a past IRIS Cocreative project [tag="iris"] (Innovative Living and Learning Institute) as an example of layering varied geometry with color, though he and Jan agreed the palette there was too muted and dark for this project's needs (20:19). More contrast and brightness will be pursued.
Jan's guiding intent: when visitors land on the page, they should encounter two views that make the paradigm shift feel real and spark curiosity to go deeper into research and practice — remaining hands-on rather than overly abstract.
An important correction surfaced around Jan's travel dates (23:24):
James will refine the project plan against these corrected dates and share it with Jan.
James confirmed that Jan will get direct access to Figma to leave comments, and that Monya reviews the full meeting recordings alongside the AI-generated summaries to stay aligned with Jan's feedback (10:27). Jan will also use the upcoming quieter period in Finland to reflect further on positioning.
James Redenbaugh
Jan Pfister
James opened by sharing that designer Monya is now more involved in the project, collecting additional color, layout, and graphic inspiration based on their prior conversations (02:35). The team is expanding the color palette and moving away from AI-generated imagery toward an original illustrative language for the four domains.
Monya has developed simple, geometric ways to illustrate the domain concepts, replacing the earlier AI-generated exploratory images. James highlighted that these simplified illustrations lend themselves well to animation — allowing connections to form, geometries to shift, and layers to expand on hover rather than just swapping between static images (03:00). He's also experimenting with overlaying the different domains into a single composite image, noting the circular quality could reinforce the scientific, microscope/telescope-like framing of Jan's approach.
[technology="Parametric Geometric Interfaces"]
James introduced two variable fonts he believes work well together:
These have been unified into a working style guide in Figma that will continue to evolve (08:23).
Jan raised a consistent concern: the current palette feels too dark and greenish, whereas prior conversations had landed on something brighter — closer to a Google-style palette of bright green, white, and black (07:06). He was careful to note this isn't about imitating Google, but about achieving a bright, straightforward appearance they had aligned on previously. James acknowledged that the current explorations use limited color and confirmed more color variety will come into play as the direction sharpens.
A significant portion of the conversation revolved around the balance between diagrammatic geometry and more literal, real-world imagery (12:10).
Jan recalled earlier discussions about making the paradigm shift feel visible and tangible — for example, showing people working together in an office with light playing across the scene, almost like a short video sequence. James agreed but proposed a strategic split:
James referenced a past IRIS Cocreative project [tag="iris"] (Innovative Living and Learning Institute) as an example of layering varied geometry with color, though he and Jan agreed the palette there was too muted and dark for this project's needs (20:19). More contrast and brightness will be pursued.
Jan's guiding intent: when visitors land on the page, they should encounter two views that make the paradigm shift feel real and spark curiosity to go deeper into research and practice — remaining hands-on rather than overly abstract.
An important correction surfaced around Jan's travel dates (23:24):
James will refine the project plan against these corrected dates and share it with Jan.
James confirmed that Jan will get direct access to Figma to leave comments, and that Monya reviews the full meeting recordings alongside the AI-generated summaries to stay aligned with Jan's feedback (10:27). Jan will also use the upcoming quieter period in Finland to reflect further on positioning.
James Redenbaugh
Jan Pfister
Share Figma access and relevant design and inspiration links with Jan for direct review and commenting
James to grant Jan direct Figma access and share relevant design and inspiration links so Jan can review and leave specific comments on current explorations. Timestamp: 26:18
Refine and resend project plan reflecting Jan's corrected absence dates (July 13 – August 2) and mid-August launch target
James to update the project plan against Jan's corrected travel dates (away July 13 – August 2, not mid-August as previously captured) with Webflow build starting August 4 and mid-August launch target. Timestamp: 25:02
Continue color palette exploration with increased brightness and contrast, moving away from darker greenish tones toward a brighter cleaner direction
James (with Monya) to pursue brighter, more contrasted palette direction in response to Jan's feedback that the current palette feels too dark and greenish. Jan referenced a bright green, white, and black Google-style palette as the brightness register they had previously aligned on — not as imitation but as tonal reference. Timestamp: 07:06
Continue developing domain illustrations and animation concepts with Monja, including composite layering and hover-based interaction transitions
James and Monja to continue developing simplified geometric domain illustrations and animation concepts — including connections forming, geometries shifting, and layer expansions on hover. Also exploring composite overlay of all four domains into a single circular image evoking a scientific microscope/telescope framing. Timestamp: 03:00
Review new design explorations, color palette, and font concepts in Figma once shared and leave specific directional feedback
Jan to review current design explorations including Moondial Narrow and paired serif font options, updated color directions, and domain illustration concepts once James shares Figma access, leaving specific comments to guide refinement. Timestamp: 26:38
Finalize key design direction decisions before departure on July 13
Jan to make final design direction decisions — covering color palette, typography, domain illustration approach, and hero visual concept — before his departure on July 13 so that Webflow build can begin August 4 on a locked foundation. Timestamp: 23:44
Reflect on PSME positioning during quieter Finnish summer period and share any resulting framing insights
Jan to use the quieter period in Finland during his absence to reflect further on PSME positioning and share any resulting framing insights with James asynchronously. Timestamp: 25:31
Attend Friday 3:00 PM check-in for continued design review
Jan and James to join the upcoming Friday 3:00 PM session for continued design review of color, illustrations, and animation concepts. Timestamp: 24:48
Design and develop an 8-page informational website for the Pro-Social Market Economy paradigm. Site serves as credible resource for executives, researchers, practitioners, and policymakers explaining how economic performance emerges from relational quality. Core structure includes: Home (paradigm hub with world-building metaphor visualization featuring weaving/tapestry metaphor to illustrate relational fields), Explore the Paradigm (interactive overview), Research and Resources (CMS-driven publications with chronological mapping of intellectual history from Ostrom through Wilson to current work, external journal links and PDFs), Practice and Policy (CDP diagnostics - four design mechanisms functioning as both diagnostic and interventionist tools), People, News and Events (simple calendar), Get Involved, and Evaluation and Tools. Built in Webflow with Airtable backend synced via Whalesync for easy content management. HOMEPAGE ANIMATION CONCEPT (as of 2026-06-26): Three-layer attention-capturing animation illustrating paradigm shift through identification across scales - (1) Planet at base moving from depleted to regenerative, (2) Individual at center moving from isolated to connected, (3) Organization/system structures on periphery moving from rigid grid to fluid interconnected. Animation should make visible how individual identification shifts from self/immediate team to successively larger groups (organization, market, planet), dissolving trade-offs between scales (38:14, 41:06). VISUAL FRAMEWORKS: Five Scales of Relationship (individual, group, organization, market, planetary) and Seven Performance Domains (financial, compliance, sustainability, well-being, resilience, agility, societal effects) as foundational visualization structures (06:00). Performance domains animate functionally not just as overlay swap - well-being's jagged graph leveling, resilience shifting from shattered to flexible, agility from linear to infinity loop, societal effects from walled off to radiating. Terminology refined to "effects on performance dimensions" rather than "what is measured" to clarify management framework vs measurement tool focus (43:00). VISUAL STRATEGY: Complementary aesthetics within one identity - scholarly sections with grounded research feel (serif headlines, typeset aesthetic evoking academic conferences), practitioner sections with fresh/modern feel (sans serif headlines, clean blue/red color palette), achieved through subtle shifts in typography and color rather than separate designs. Strategic nature imagery as supportive presence. Four design mechanisms need clear icons/visualizations to make diagnostic/interventionist framework approachable. CONCRETE GRAPHICS REQUIRED: Five scales and seven performance domains need recognizable symbolic elements rather than abstract treatments - practitioners arriving at page must immediately understand content (33:00, 39:53). Planet illustration style (depleted → regenerative) established as appropriate concreteness level. Sophisticated presentation maintaining recognizable symbols for people, groups, structures. KEY MESSAGING: This is cultural evolution of existing market economy, not alternative economy - markets where pro-sociality becomes driving force of value creation. Site must function as experience of paradigm shift itself - visitors should feel contrast between stressful fragile world of dominant paradigm and stable peaceful world of pro-social paradigm. Performance dimension (creativity, resilience, sustainability, economic outcomes) must remain central throughout. Content must be AI-accessible with accurate structure for indexing. TIMELINE CORRECTION (as of 2026-07-05): Heavy design work continues through next week to finalize direction before Jan's three-week holiday (July 13 - August 2). Build phase in Webflow starts during Jan's absence with locked design. August 4-8 continues build and refinement. August 11-15 for review, feedback rounds, and launch targeting end of August funding deadline (08:38, 14:20). Site map with wireframes to be generated for Jan's review before departure, flagging missing content areas (42:24). All content highly editable in Webflow allowing font/color/parameter adjustments after Jan returns (14:20). DESIGN DIRECTION (as of 2026-07-05): Background stays bright white rather than trending darker, referencing Google search page brightness and bold saturated primary colors (20:08, 24:40). Color palette confirmed: red, green, blue, yellow with "bold and fresh" as guiding direction (29:20, 37:00). Site tells story of old paradigm (darker) giving way to new pro-social paradigm (bright, fresh) requiring strong contrast (25:56). Subtle texture to be added to solid color blocks for depth, video integration in key places for aliveness including aerial earth imagery (38:41, 40:37). Real photos and people approved especially for corporate/executive audience (32:31). Four-mechanism figure needs more vibrant colors (31:48). DESIGN REFINEMENT (as of 2026-07-08): Jan's external reviewers provided clear directional feedback - current explorations by Munia are strong on details and softer textures but need more edgy, bold, straight-to-the-point quality from earlier editorial-style direction to communicate grounded field that's here to stay rather than new idea in magazine (13:27, 15:32). Bright yellow, red, green repositioned as accent/support colors only rather than dominant backgrounds (16:59). Darker blue singled out as particularly strong for grounding, especially as background for writing-heavy sections. Primary backgrounds: dark blue, white, gray, or image. Bright colors used as accents in illustrations, tags, borders, card details. Overall goal: more concrete, less abstract. Typography strategy refined - serif font used in reserved, intentional ways as accent across site rather than wholesale switch on one page. Color usage stays consistent site-wide with variation introduced through visualized content rather than structural shifts (24:01). All website colors built as variables in Webflow allowing global updates (21:09). Consistent main frame throughout site with variation brought in through individual papers/citations shown as images within consistent containers (23:03). NEXT ITERATION DIRECTION (as of 2026-07-08): Exploring bolder fonts possibly reviving earlier bolder primary font, sharper corners moving away from heavily-rounded feel to introduce more impact, darker blue brought back as grounding background color, bright colors repositioned as accents only (36:00). Logo development initiated reflecting planet-economy connection without green-activist framing (36:00). AI OPTIMIZATION: Content structured for AI readability through AIO/GEO (generative engine optimization) - properly structured headlines, tags, semantic markup, crawlable linked research. Research papers hosted directly on site when external sources block bots while maintaining links to originals. Ensures "pro-social market economy" becomes clearly defined and discoverable across AI-driven search (44:00, 46:24). NEXT MILESTONE: 100% alignment on style guide, agreed direction on graphics/illustrations, and sign-off on homepage design by July 11 meeting before Jan's departure (17:44).
Develop comprehensive brand identity for Pro-Social Market Economy including visual language, typography, color palette, and aesthetic direction that balances credibility for business executives with accessibility for broader audiences. Process includes brand questionnaire exploration, metaphor development (flat world/round world, parallel worlds), philosophical stream mapping, and creation of visual precedents. Visual direction should communicate paradigm shift from individual optimization to relational management while feeling fresh, professional, and modern (not dated/yellowed). Core brand metaphor: weaving/tapestry representing relational fields - adaptable across icons, illustrations, and diagrams in both subtle and bold expressions. COLOR DIRECTION (as of 2026-07-05): Primary palette confirmed as red, green, blue, yellow with bold, saturated tones inspired by Google's bright, simple, inviting quality (24:40, 29:20). Blue as primary entrepreneurial tone with red and gold accents. Avoiding excess green to prevent "green ideology" signaling - reserve green only for specific sustainability contexts. Bright, clean, uniform white backgrounds required - no trending darker (20:08). Yellow adjusted toward more saturated, sunny tone rather than muted/dark (34:15). "Bold and fresh" established as guiding direction (37:00). Strong contrast between old paradigm (darker) and new pro-social paradigm (bright, fresh) essential to visual storytelling (25:56). COLOR REFINEMENT (as of 2026-07-08): Bright yellow, red, green repositioned as accent/support colors only rather than dominant backgrounds following Jan's external reviewer feedback (16:59). Darker blue singled out as particularly strong for grounding, especially as background for writing-heavy sections. Primary backgrounds established as dark blue, white, gray, or image. Bright colors used as accents in illustrations, tags, borders, card details. Overall goal: more concrete, less abstract. All website colors built as variables in Webflow allowing global updates (21:09). TYPOGRAPHY STRATEGY (as of 2026-07-01): Variable fonts unified into working Figma style guide (08:23). Moondial Narrow variable sans-serif for modern, versatile, Scandinavian feel with precise weight control. Paired with clean, readable variable serif font suited to academic dimension. Differentiate scholarly vs business sides through font pairing - serif headlines for scholarly sections (evoking academic conference, typeset, paper-like feel), sans serif headlines for business/practitioner sections. Body fonts remain consistent across both to maintain visual unity. Tags and labels consistent throughout. TYPOGRAPHY REFINEMENT (as of 2026-07-08): Serif font repositioned as reserved, intentional accent across site rather than wholesale switch on scholarly page to avoid mixed identity concern (23:03). Color usage stays consistent site-wide with variation introduced through visualized content (individual papers/citations shown as images within consistent containers) rather than structural shifts (24:01). Exploring bolder fonts possibly reviving earlier bolder primary font and sharper corners moving away from heavily-rounded feel to introduce more impact (36:00). IMAGERY APPROACH: Moving away from AI-generated imagery toward original illustrative language. Monya developing simple, geometric domain illustrations that lend themselves to animation - connections forming, geometries shifting, layers expanding on hover rather than static image swaps (03:00). Hybrid strategy using real photography for landscapes, mountains, Earth imagery where authenticity matters - approved especially for corporate/executive audience (32:31). Strategic use of real imagery and video for bringing paradigm shift to life deeper on page (38:41, 40:37). Avoiding overly "stocky" feel while leveraging appropriate photography and video for dimensionality. Hero section should not overwhelm with imagery - geometry is inclusive and lets people find own meaning. Real imagery, intelligently generated visuals, and curated stock deeper on page to make paradigm shift tangible (12:10, 20:19). Subtle texture to be added to solid color blocks for depth (38:41). VISUAL REQUIREMENTS: Concrete rather than abstract - practitioners must immediately understand content without heavy cognitive work (33:00). Recognizable symbols (people, groups, structures) while maintaining sophisticated presentation. Planet illustration (depleted → regenerative) established as right level of concreteness and clarity. Nature imagery (trees, water, ecosystems) as supportive presence connecting to sustainability. Circular graphics preferred over squared grids to represent how relationships operate. Figures should almost always include humans. Must feel distinct from Prosocial World's dark aesthetic. More contrast and brightness needed - avoiding muted/dark palettes from previous IRIS projects. STYLE DIRECTION CONVERGENCE: Business side treatment from "relational field" direction (blue/red color, clean font) paired with scholarly side treatment featuring typeset aesthetic. Eight homepage mockup variations developed spanning conventional to experimental to seed visual field. Latest homepage design from Munya represents "a real step forward" with clean, clear tone (19:00). Jan to review in Figma with direct commenting access and share with 2-3 collaborators for broader input (13:11, 48:12). DESIGN DIRECTION SHIFT (as of 2026-07-08): Jan's external reviewers confirmed current explorations by Munia are shaping nicely with strong details and softer textures but need more edgy, bold, straight-to-the-point quality from earlier editorial-style direction. Concern that current softness risks reading as "new idea we're writing about in a magazine this week" rather than grounded field that's here to stay (13:27, 15:32). Resolved through business vs. academic balance - business side carries bolder, more radical energy while academic side stays quieter and deeper, both communicating permanence and rigor (15:51). Next iteration explores bolder fonts, sharper corners, darker blue grounding (36:00). NEXT MILESTONE: 100% alignment on style guide by July 11 meeting before Jan's departure (17:44).
Develop sophisticated parametric animation for PSME website homepage that serves as attention-capturing visualization of paradigm shift from individual optimization to relational management. Animation centers on three concrete layers illustrating identification shift across scales: (1) Planet at base - depleted ecosystem transitioning to regenerative thriving Earth, (2) Individual at center - isolated figure moving to connected being within relational field, (3) Organization/system structures on periphery - rigid grid structures dissolving into fluid interconnected networks (38:14, 41:06).
CONCEPTUAL FOUNDATION: Animation should make visible how individual identification expands from self/immediate team (making decisions at cost of larger systems) to successively larger groups (organization, market, planet) as part of themselves, dissolving trade-offs between scales. This identification shift is the core narrative distinguishing old paradigm from new (41:06).
VISUAL FRAMEWORKS TO ANIMATE: Five Scales of Relationship (individual, group, organization, market, planetary) and Seven Performance Domains (financial, compliance, sustainability, well-being, resilience, agility, societal effects) as foundational structures (06:00). Each performance domain requires functional animation showing actual change - well-being's jagged graph leveling out, resilience shifting from shattered to flexible, agility moving from linear to infinity loop, societal effects transitioning from walled off to radiating outward.
DESIGN REQUIREMENTS: Concrete rather than abstract - use recognizable symbols for people, groups, structures while maintaining sophisticated presentation. Planet illustration style (depleted → regenerative) established as appropriate concreteness benchmark (33:00). Must integrate seamlessly with brand direction: blue/red color palette, bright clean backgrounds, weaving/tapestry metaphor as core visual language. Simple geometric domain illustrations allow connections to form, geometries to shift, layers to expand on hover rather than static image swaps (03:00). Experimenting with overlaying different domains into single composite image - circular quality reinforces scientific microscope/telescope-like framing. Animation may be developed using Grasshopper for parametric geometric logic then translated to interactive JavaScript in Webflow.
TERMINOLOGY: Frame performance domains as "effects on performance dimensions" to clarify this is management framework not measurement tool (43:00). Animation should communicate paradigm shift as cultural evolution of existing market economy where pro-sociality becomes driving force, not alternative economy model.
DEVELOPMENT APPROACH (as of 2026-07-01): Monya developing simplified geometric illustrations that lend themselves well to animation potential (03:00). James experimenting with composite overlays and hover interactions. Hero section animation should be inclusive and non-overwhelming - letting visitors find own meaning. Strategic balance between geometric abstraction in hero and more literal real-world imagery deeper on page.
DELIVERABLES: Animation storyboard, style frames showing three-layer transitions, functional prototype for homepage integration, documentation of parametric logic for future adaptations.
00:00:14
James Redenbaugh: This meeting is being recorded.
00:00:37
Jan Pfister: Hi, james. Hello. Do you hear me?
00:00:47
James Redenbaugh: Yes. Can you hear me now?
00:00:49
Jan Pfister: Oh, yeah, yeah. Yes.
00:00:52
James Redenbaugh: Hi. Good to see you.
00:00:53
Jan Pfister: Yeah, good to see you.
00:00:56
James Redenbaugh: How are you?
00:00:58
Jan Pfister: Yeah, good. Busy days. So kind of. I think I'm ripe for a break. That's how I would describe it. But nice weather here, so that's great.
00:01:14
James Redenbaugh: It's not too hot?
00:01:17
Jan Pfister: No, Finland is, you know, starts becoming ideal temperature. It's kind of a bit global warm or. Yeah, kind of when Europe is kind of unbearable. Finland has nice 25, 22 degrees now. 25.
00:01:32
James Redenbaugh: Nice. Yeah. Yeah. Global warming could be good for you guys.
00:01:40
Jan Pfister: If you want to see it this way.
00:01:43
James Redenbaugh: You want to see it in an anti social way.
00:01:47
Jan Pfister: Yes. How about you?
00:01:49
James Redenbaugh: I'm doing good. I'm feeling much better. I had a good restful weekend and still a little queasy, but good.
00:02:06
Jan Pfister: Yeah, I'll take it easy.
00:02:08
James Redenbaugh: Yeah, until.
00:02:12
Jan Pfister: So is it today. It's just a few things, right? That was the idea.
00:02:19
James Redenbaugh: Yeah. We've made some good progress. So I'm excited to get into it with you and yeah, I don't think we need to take too much time, so let's hop right in.
00:02:35
Jan Pfister: Cool. So, so very exciting process. So it's kind of nice to give feedback and then you see what's happening.
00:02:43
James Redenbaugh: Yeah, yeah. Now we'll start to see things really take. Take more shape. First of all, let's. Let's start with these over. And then I want to show you some other stuff on the web. So I'm very happy to have my designer, Monya getting more involved now. And I can make sure you have access to this as well, so you can leave comments directly on here. But she's collected a lot of additional color inspo and layout inspo and graphic inspo that you might appreciate based on our, our conversations and what she and I have discussed on style and direction for the site and kind of expanding the color palette, playing with different options and then starting to get into illustrating these domains. And I really like how she's found these simple ways to illustrate these concepts. Kind of moving from the AI generated stuff, images I did over here to more of our own language for this. And of course we can tweak any of this and shift the colors. But one of the good things about the way that this is done is that this is all. This would all be very easy to animate if we want to bring it alive to not just like swipe between these two images, but have like see connections form or see this geometry shift to this geometry and obviously there's still some, some ones to, to do here and then down here I'm playing with what could it be like to overlay the different domains into a single image. Obviously they're all very circular. We're not using the whole canvas, but I think that that could lend itself well to the, the narrative will have on the site and the, the scientific view that you're, the approach that you're taking to all of this. It's almost like we're looking at these petri dishes or through a microscope or a telescope at these different things. But of course we can expand the canvas if we want to and keeping them as simple as this, I think that they could really come alive in interesting ways. Maybe as we mouse over them, the layers expand or we could see, see the different domains coming to life and of course we could animate the transition. And then Munia is starting to play with layout elements over here, what this can look like. I did another round of font explorations and I found two fonts that I think can work really well. And I want to show you some other.
00:07:06
Jan Pfister: So these are now, these are now different fonts that we discussed. Right. So that's now back to quite a, kind of a bit of a depressing. Depressing look here. No, I mean it looks nice. Not, not too. But I think it looks a bit different from what we have now, this discussed in the sense that the color is. Well, depressing is I think too, too strong a word, but it is kind of more of a darkish. How to say? I, I guess it has, it depends how it all looks together in, in combination. But I think what we discussed, if I remember right last time, was that it would be kind of a bit like the Google colors. Right. So kind of when I, if I remember our talk when we went through the different color palettes.
00:08:01
James Redenbaugh: Yeah.
00:08:03
Jan Pfister: Then we kind of ended up having, for the business oriented, kind of. Not, not exactly to Google, but kind of, you know, the quite bright green white, black. I think that's what, what, what we agreed then.
00:08:23
James Redenbaugh: Yes. Yeah. So this, this is what we were looking at together last week. I created a unified. Version of what we were talking about here, expanding things out. These were our, our font choices from those selections. And then I took this and I just, I, I tweaked the fonts. I, I found this one, Moondial Narrow, which is a, a variable font so we can have really precise control over, over the weight. It also feels very versatile, modern Scandinavian. I think it could be a really good. Sans Serif font. And then I paired it with this serif font, which is also variable, which gives us a lot of control over how it displays. And it's serif, but it's clean, readable, I think good for the academic side of things. And so right now this is the full style guide that we're working on off of. And of course this can evolve, but what we see in Figma right now are mainly explorations, so the feedback is super valuable. But I also wanted to share, Share this as well. Nice.
00:10:27
Jan Pfister: Yeah, I mean, I guess the, the feedback is still the. I mean, it looks really good. It just, I think it is this, this brightness that we were discussing. So how does it go? So when we have these, these chats, then it's all recorded. Right. Then it's kind of with an AI, makes a summary, and then it kind of brings. It brings it back.
00:10:52
James Redenbaugh: Yeah. And I share that with Bunya and she watches the whole recording as well.
00:10:57
Jan Pfister: Yeah. Okay. Yeah, no, I think, I think that the, the fonts are really nice. The, the color I think is. Now it's kind of greenish. Right. So it's the background. And, and I still kind of want to keep the, the white one. I think it's. Yeah, but I guess it depends now where it goes. Maybe, maybe if I see a next version, but it is, but the animations. Now I was just wondering because I believe last time, and like the two previous times when we talked, we talked also about, I mean, this, this looks clearer. So clearly. But clearly it becomes more obvious what it is about. But we also talked about making it more real. Right. So kind of instead of abstract to become that, it becomes more like visible, kind of almost like video, kind of short sequence or something like that.
00:12:10
James Redenbaugh: Yeah. I'm thinking that we want to balance the diagrammatic and the real. So, and, and maybe we go one way or the other. But I, I thought we could kind of start with, with this and then. There's lots of ways that we can bring in the real. If we go with the real approach for the, this animated interactive concept, that's, that's definitely doable, but it's going to be more like transitioning from one photo to another. Here, let me.
00:13:20
Jan Pfister: You remember our, our discussion kind of, you know, to illustrate it kind of people sitting in a room and then. Or in an office and then kind of playing with light and kind of how they work together.
00:13:34
James Redenbaugh: That. Yeah.
00:13:35
Jan Pfister: It's a different thing probably from what we do now. Right. It's a different part of the page.
00:13:40
James Redenbaugh: Exactly. I think that for the, for the hero when we first land there, we don't want to give, we don't want it to be too overwhelming and we don't want to turn people away as we go further down the page. Definitely we want those, those images. We want to play with like really intelligently generated images like we've talked about that can, that can even be animated and show those shifts and we can play with, you know, existing stock photos and videos. But. I think we want to bring a lot of care into that so that it doesn't feel AI generated. And we don't want to. Turn people away when they see a more. Specific thing. Like what's great about geometry is. It's all inclusive. You know, people can, can find their own meaning in it. But when you see a fully rendered image, folks are either going to be drawn to it or not. It can be more polarizing if it's used as this like first, First image. And that's not at all like an absolute. This project here, we use a number of different videos in the header to tell a story and we have this collage image where we've blended lots of different things together. And then it gets more into this diagram that uses geometry but also a lot of images in the exploration. But this is a very different project. Yes, obviously different, different style, different needs.
00:16:39
Jan Pfister: I think for the, for the opening and I think we have discussed it two sessions ago quite a bit or if I remember right, kind of. I think for the opening it would be maybe good to. Yeah. Have something that makes the transition really visible. And I think I, I see with these diagrams and I guess it needs, if I see this. Right. This is still work in progress. So I guess creativity, creativity shouldn't be stopped or criticized at the wrong moment. So I think maybe let's see, you know, where it goes. I think it is, it is a. There is a. I just thought what we discussed was kind of when you go to the page that it becomes quite real. What this paradigm shift is that you kind of see kind of you enter the page and you get kind of two views that make you curious of this. And then you want to go deeper, you know, whether it's research, practice and, and I guess then it will be good to illustrate more specific details. Yeah, that it remains very kind of hands on to people. That it's not too abstract, I would say, because otherwise, I guess. But I don't know, I mean it's, I guess too early to say. And the other thing is, I think. Yeah, from the, from the font size. I was really, last time, after our discussion I was really excited in the sense that I felt we have found this, you know, kind of bright, bright setup with the font as well. And then I realized this is kind of a bit Google Google style. Right. So that I realized afterwards and I don't want to kind of be that this is a Google imitation or anything from the, from the fonts but, but it is a bit kind of I think to imagine the, the appearance to be a bit kind of bright, straightforward. Yeah, I think that's what we discussed last time. Quite a bit.
00:18:42
James Redenbaugh: Yes. I think that right now in the early phase of exploration, we're not using a lot of colors yet, but I think that we're definitely going to want more colors to come into play. And I wanted to show you this example.
00:19:06
Jan Pfister: And also I think this what looked, I mean of course how it's designed with the four mechanisms. I think that looks good from Logic as far as I can see.
00:19:26
James Redenbaugh: See. Just as an example, another very different project but I wanted to show you. Some other things that Mun created. This is a very kind of Earth Tony palette. But I love the, the use of colors that we have here and the variety of geometries. This is an older.
00:20:05
Jan Pfister: Yeah, so this is kind of for, for. But the purpose of this is kind of a artsy cart picking page or something.
00:20:19
James Redenbaugh: Yeah. So this is a, it's called Innovative Living and Learning Institute. They're a land based project in California and they do a lot of, a lot of work with people and groups and transformation and concept and living on the land. And. I just love the, the, the ways that we've brought in color into the website. But now that I'm looking at it, it's kind of muted. It doesn't exactly fit. But I'm, you know, I think, I.
00:21:04
Jan Pfister: Mean I see the care and the details, how it bleeds together. I guess for our purpose. This, it's again, it's I think a bit too dark like the overall setup, but I guess I see what you mean, the design details.
00:21:20
James Redenbaugh: Yeah, yeah, too dark and too muted. I think that we can play with more contrast so we'll keep playing with it. I think we should check in again at the end of this week and look at, look at more things together. And I can also share. Project plan for the next few weeks outlining certain goals. So kind of breaking things down from here. The next couple weeks continue to really lock in the direction and the content. The content is already in a really great, great place. But we'll start to see it more in context with the design as it evolves. And designing the latter part of July and start of August getting a lot more into into design, creating components and templates for different pages, building things out in figma. And then I think we should target starting to build in webflow by August 4th and that way you can really start to see things in context before you go. And it gives us some buffer to continue working on design. Then you'll be away.
00:23:24
Jan Pfister: The dates are not right. So I think it was a misunderstanding here. So I'm away from 13th of July to 2nd of August.
00:23:35
James Redenbaugh: Okay.
00:23:38
Jan Pfister: So that means basically we need to make quite a bit decisions until the end of next week.
00:23:44
James Redenbaugh: Yes.
00:23:45
Jan Pfister: And then, and then kind of go through that you. That you can work on something. And then early August I'm back and we can continue.
00:23:54
James Redenbaugh: Okay, That's what I thought. That makes more sense. But for some reason my, my AI picked up that you were gone and leaving the 13th of August. Yeah, yeah.
00:24:18
Jan Pfister: So if we, if we basically next week could do a few. So this week actually just checking with you, what is the earliest that you could do on Friday or.
00:24:37
James Redenbaugh: Like earliest in the day? Yes, I could do 3:00pm could you do 3 on Friday?
00:24:48
Jan Pfister: So my 3:00pm on Friday. Yeah, that would be good.
00:24:54
James Redenbaugh: Great.
00:24:56
Jan Pfister: And then take it from there.
00:25:02
James Redenbaugh: Cool. I'll refine this and send it to you. Given our updated information.
00:25:15
Jan Pfister: Yes. Good.
00:25:17
James Redenbaugh: And we want to target like a mid August launch, correct?
00:25:23
Jan Pfister: Yeah, if. Yeah,.
00:25:28
James Redenbaugh: That's what I thought we could do.
00:25:31
Jan Pfister: Yeah. And so yeah and I guess you have all the information right from the different talks. So now it's kind of just that I understand as I'm not a designer. So we are kind of playing around with different possibilities and I guess then it gets to sharper views what it will be. So I will also think again a bit more how to position it but I think. Yeah, yeah, let's. Let's go from there. It's now holiday and lighter in. In Finland so I can think more.
00:26:15
James Redenbaugh: Awesome.
00:26:16
Jan Pfister: Good.
00:26:18
James Redenbaugh: Well, happy holidays. I'll send you some links of things that you can also spend more time with in your own time and you can leave comments on the Figma as well.
00:26:32
Jan Pfister: I mean I must correct I have not yet holidays. It's just generally the spirit here is holiday.
00:26:38
James Redenbaugh: Yeah, yeah, I get it.
00:26:40
Jan Pfister: Yeah no that's good. Yeah if you send me the links then I can make sure I have a good look there as well.
00:26:45
James Redenbaugh: Yeah, cool.
00:26:47
Jan Pfister: Good. Okie doke.
00:26:49
James Redenbaugh: Okie doke. I'll talk to you soon. Have a good day.
00:26:52
Jan Pfister: Talk to you, Ryan. Bye.
00:26:53
James Redenbaugh: Bye, toe.
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