Peter shared his process of transforming the initial Claude AI draft into human-centered copy (00:01:00). He spent about ninety minutes rewriting the homepage and about sections, working to remove the robotic tone and infuse his authentic voice. While the copy feels "good enough" to be forward-facing, he noticed areas needing refinement, particularly around the hero section and framing of his core offering.
The writing process became clearer as he progressed through the document. By the end of the about section, he questioned whether the initial framing still aligned with what had emerged. Ellen reinforced the importance of moving past perfectionism to create space for iteration and visual development, noting that seeing the copy designed will reveal what's working and where to refine.
The core concept of accompaniment emerged as Peter's central differentiator during his recent week-long engagement at Mount Madonna (06:00). This orientation represents a fundamental shift from traditional consulting relationships, built on values of care and generosity rather than transactional boundaries.
Peter described accompanying Mount Madonna through both strategic conversations and ordinary operational discussions, like whether to replace thirty-year-old hot tubs with saunas (06:45). He positioned himself as a "third stringer" in meetings, supporting the new development director Andy while being introduced as a team member rather than an external consultant.
In one memorable example, the Mount Madonna ED asked Peter to lead a grounding practice at the start of a meeting with the Santa Cruz Community Foundation, a first-time connection for the fifty-year-old organization (17:05). Peter happened to have the Bhagavad Gita in his bag and was able to step into that role naturally, demonstrating the cultural fluency and willingness to be present that defines his approach.
This accompaniment extended throughout the week. Peter joined community dinners, sometimes sitting alone and sometimes engaging in casual conversation about the 49ers. He spent weekdays working intensively with the team and took Sunday for himself to surf, maintaining clear boundaries while remaining genuinely available.
Peter acknowledged his Enneagram 3 energy around forward movement while recognizing the power of being actually concerned about the relationship (23:30). His Mount Madonna contract ends May 31st and will create a significant gap in revenue, but he believes the relationship-focused approach will lead to continued engagement rather than a hard stop.
His best-case scenario is transitioning to an advisory role at roughly twenty-five percent of the current contract value, continuing the coaching for success phase that's currently underway. The strategy involved finding the right approach, hiring Andy, and now coaching him toward success through action-oriented development.
Peter emphasized his core value of action over inaction, refusing to engage in work that doesn't focus on actually doing things (27:00). With Andy, he's been scheduling meetings and emphasizing getting reps in rather than endless preparation. This aligns with Ellen's current work with NLP Marin on dimensional mind approach, which emphasizes the critical distinction between talking about things and actually doing them.
The Mount Madonna work has produced tangible results. The new development director Andy has been leading donor meetings with Peter present as support, followed by coaching conversations about what worked and what to develop. This accompaniment through actual practice rather than theoretical training exemplifies the approach.
The current hero copy "With You Together" and "Uncommon Partnership in the Ordinary and Extraordinary" feels awkward and doesn't fully capture the accompaniment concept (02:52). Peter wrote this section first but questioned whether it still fit after completing the rest of the copy.
The "uncommon" language attempts to distinguish from traditional consultants and strategists while communicating availability for both strategic questions and ground-level implementation. Peter expressed discomfort with expert positioning that creates distance, wanting to convey that nothing is below him while maintaining appropriate boundaries.
Ellen noted that while the differentiation is clear to Peter because he's living it, the language needs to work harder for readers unfamiliar with his approach (10:47). The accompaniment concept is strong but may not belong in the header itself. She suggested finding punchy, clear language that emerges from the conversation rather than trying to be different for difference's sake.
The line "We're here for real change" from the values section stood out as the kind of direct, powerful statement that could work in a header (32:23). Ellen emphasized that these conversations often surface the most useful language naturally, as demonstrated by her experience with another client whose entire site copy emerged from recorded conversations about her why and values.
Ellen shared draft brand guidelines that James has been developing, showing typography explorations and initial color palette work (37:40). The team cleaned up the Enzo symbol and explored different typographic treatments for the Uncommon Partners lockup.
Two primary typographic directions emerged. The first option presented very clean, minimal letterforms. The second introduced more personality through slightly funkier details in the M's, L's, and A's while maintaining overall clarity (39:40).
Peter responded strongly to the cleaner direction, stating he's "more attracted to clear than otherwise" (46:00). He appreciated that it still maintains personality without being void of character. The re-typesetting of his original AI-generated logo felt completely appropriate, as that initial version was created through a sixty-dollar automated service.
James proposed an initial palette including slate black, two blue tones, dark forest green, moss green, brown, off-white, and accent colors (40:45). Peter responded positively to most selections, particularly the slate black, one blue option, dark forest green, moss green, brown, and off-white.
He noted he could move slightly toward the second blue but isn't drawn to pastels generally. The earth-toned palette with selective blue accents aligned well with his aesthetic preferences while maintaining the clean, clear direction established in typography.
Ellen curated imagery exploring textural, dynamic, mysterious qualities that show movement and interconnectedness (43:10). She focused on images that could be nature-adjacent without being obviously literal, avoiding heavy-handed nature photography.
Peter responded most strongly to complex, layered images showing movement and contrast. He specifically called out a cluster of three images on the lower right as particularly resonant for the reasons Ellen articulated: mysterious, showing movement, demonstrating contrast (43:50).
One image felt "too jumbled" and "too chaotic" for his taste (44:26). This feedback helped clarify the boundary between dynamic complexity and overwhelming chaos. The approved direction maintains kinetic energy and visual interest while preserving the clarity that runs through all his preferences.
Peter referenced his presentation work in Beautiful AI, where he frequently searches for "space" when selecting images (49:03). This reinforced the preference for clean, open imagery that breathes rather than cluttered compositions, even when showing dynamic or complex subjects.
Ellen noted the unusual experience of encountering obviously AI-altered images while researching, a new phenomenon in her image curation work (45:28). This awareness will inform continued imagery development as the visual language evolves.
Peter identified Mount Madonna as his current best-case client, providing a clear template for future partnerships (12:42). The engagement demonstrates multiple characteristics that make accompaniment possible and valuable.
The organization faces a clear, urgent problem: change or disappear within five years. This creates genuine impetus for transformation rather than nice-to-have optimization. They maintain a very welcoming culture practiced through their yogic orientation, making multiple on-ramps available for Peter to integrate into their community.
The organizational culture values relationships and doesn't maintain elitist barriers, though Peter acknowledged they certainly have their own boundaries. The fifty-year-old retreat center had never previously engaged with the Santa Cruz Community Foundation because they lacked a philanthropy staff person, representing significant untapped potential.
Peter emphasized he's truly not interested in one-off engagements (22:58). While he'll do them if they offer other benefits, he's fundamentally oriented toward seeing transformation through rather than developing strategy and walking away. This distinguishes him in a culture he sees as over-indexed on cerebral work and ideas rather than action and implementation.
The accompaniment model positions Peter to remain valuable beyond the initial contract phases. His presence during Andy's donor meetings, his participation in community life, and his genuine care for the relationship create conditions where Mount Madonna is unlikely to want to lose him even after the formal engagement concludes.
Peter is using the Mount Madonna contract end date (likely May 31st) as a motivating deadline for website completion (32:33). While he knows the website won't directly replace that revenue, he wants a home base established for his work before that transition point.
His approach to the copy document involves working through sections and marking them complete for Ellen and James to review and work with (32:23). He'll continue updating the shared document and sending notifications when new sections are ready, maintaining momentum while the visual development progresses in parallel.
Ellen suggested the homepage is typically where people struggle most, so having completed that heavy lifting is significant progress (33:33). She recommended Peter continue writing about his services without worrying about final page structure. They can extract and reorganize content once more material exists, potentially pulling some service descriptions onto the homepage or shifting elements around.
The natural next step involves Ellen drafting some hero headline and subhead options based on the accompaniment discussion. James will continue refining the brand guidelines with updated typography, refined colors incorporating Peter's feedback, and development of accent elements and background components. Ellen will also curate additional imagery in the approved direction: textural, dynamic, showing movement and interconnectedness while avoiding chaotic compositions.
Ellen expressed excitement about working in Webflow [tag="webflow"] for the first time after designing exclusively in Squarespace for previous clients (49:33). She's looking forward to seeing how they can visualize what Peter is building with the expanded capabilities available.
The team agreed to continue iterating asynchronously with Peter tagging Ellen whenever he wants feedback, while planning to reconvene next week with more developed visual materials to review together.
Ellen
Peter
Peter shared his process of transforming the initial Claude AI draft into human-centered copy (00:01:00). He spent about ninety minutes rewriting the homepage and about sections, working to remove the robotic tone and infuse his authentic voice. While the copy feels "good enough" to be forward-facing, he noticed areas needing refinement, particularly around the hero section and framing of his core offering.
The writing process became clearer as he progressed through the document. By the end of the about section, he questioned whether the initial framing still aligned with what had emerged. Ellen reinforced the importance of moving past perfectionism to create space for iteration and visual development, noting that seeing the copy designed will reveal what's working and where to refine.
The core concept of accompaniment emerged as Peter's central differentiator during his recent week-long engagement at Mount Madonna (06:00). This orientation represents a fundamental shift from traditional consulting relationships, built on values of care and generosity rather than transactional boundaries.
Peter described accompanying Mount Madonna through both strategic conversations and ordinary operational discussions, like whether to replace thirty-year-old hot tubs with saunas (06:45). He positioned himself as a "third stringer" in meetings, supporting the new development director Andy while being introduced as a team member rather than an external consultant.
In one memorable example, the Mount Madonna ED asked Peter to lead a grounding practice at the start of a meeting with the Santa Cruz Community Foundation, a first-time connection for the fifty-year-old organization (17:05). Peter happened to have the Bhagavad Gita in his bag and was able to step into that role naturally, demonstrating the cultural fluency and willingness to be present that defines his approach.
This accompaniment extended throughout the week. Peter joined community dinners, sometimes sitting alone and sometimes engaging in casual conversation about the 49ers. He spent weekdays working intensively with the team and took Sunday for himself to surf, maintaining clear boundaries while remaining genuinely available.
Peter acknowledged his Enneagram 3 energy around forward movement while recognizing the power of being actually concerned about the relationship (23:30). His Mount Madonna contract ends May 31st and will create a significant gap in revenue, but he believes the relationship-focused approach will lead to continued engagement rather than a hard stop.
His best-case scenario is transitioning to an advisory role at roughly twenty-five percent of the current contract value, continuing the coaching for success phase that's currently underway. The strategy involved finding the right approach, hiring Andy, and now coaching him toward success through action-oriented development.
Peter emphasized his core value of action over inaction, refusing to engage in work that doesn't focus on actually doing things (27:00). With Andy, he's been scheduling meetings and emphasizing getting reps in rather than endless preparation. This aligns with Ellen's current work with NLP Marin on dimensional mind approach, which emphasizes the critical distinction between talking about things and actually doing them.
The Mount Madonna work has produced tangible results. The new development director Andy has been leading donor meetings with Peter present as support, followed by coaching conversations about what worked and what to develop. This accompaniment through actual practice rather than theoretical training exemplifies the approach.
The current hero copy "With You Together" and "Uncommon Partnership in the Ordinary and Extraordinary" feels awkward and doesn't fully capture the accompaniment concept (02:52). Peter wrote this section first but questioned whether it still fit after completing the rest of the copy.
The "uncommon" language attempts to distinguish from traditional consultants and strategists while communicating availability for both strategic questions and ground-level implementation. Peter expressed discomfort with expert positioning that creates distance, wanting to convey that nothing is below him while maintaining appropriate boundaries.
Ellen noted that while the differentiation is clear to Peter because he's living it, the language needs to work harder for readers unfamiliar with his approach (10:47). The accompaniment concept is strong but may not belong in the header itself. She suggested finding punchy, clear language that emerges from the conversation rather than trying to be different for difference's sake.
The line "We're here for real change" from the values section stood out as the kind of direct, powerful statement that could work in a header (32:23). Ellen emphasized that these conversations often surface the most useful language naturally, as demonstrated by her experience with another client whose entire site copy emerged from recorded conversations about her why and values.
Ellen shared draft brand guidelines that James has been developing, showing typography explorations and initial color palette work (37:40). The team cleaned up the Enzo symbol and explored different typographic treatments for the Uncommon Partners lockup.
Two primary typographic directions emerged. The first option presented very clean, minimal letterforms. The second introduced more personality through slightly funkier details in the M's, L's, and A's while maintaining overall clarity (39:40).
Peter responded strongly to the cleaner direction, stating he's "more attracted to clear than otherwise" (46:00). He appreciated that it still maintains personality without being void of character. The re-typesetting of his original AI-generated logo felt completely appropriate, as that initial version was created through a sixty-dollar automated service.
James proposed an initial palette including slate black, two blue tones, dark forest green, moss green, brown, off-white, and accent colors (40:45). Peter responded positively to most selections, particularly the slate black, one blue option, dark forest green, moss green, brown, and off-white.
He noted he could move slightly toward the second blue but isn't drawn to pastels generally. The earth-toned palette with selective blue accents aligned well with his aesthetic preferences while maintaining the clean, clear direction established in typography.
Ellen curated imagery exploring textural, dynamic, mysterious qualities that show movement and interconnectedness (43:10). She focused on images that could be nature-adjacent without being obviously literal, avoiding heavy-handed nature photography.
Peter responded most strongly to complex, layered images showing movement and contrast. He specifically called out a cluster of three images on the lower right as particularly resonant for the reasons Ellen articulated: mysterious, showing movement, demonstrating contrast (43:50).
One image felt "too jumbled" and "too chaotic" for his taste (44:26). This feedback helped clarify the boundary between dynamic complexity and overwhelming chaos. The approved direction maintains kinetic energy and visual interest while preserving the clarity that runs through all his preferences.
Peter referenced his presentation work in Beautiful AI, where he frequently searches for "space" when selecting images (49:03). This reinforced the preference for clean, open imagery that breathes rather than cluttered compositions, even when showing dynamic or complex subjects.
Ellen noted the unusual experience of encountering obviously AI-altered images while researching, a new phenomenon in her image curation work (45:28). This awareness will inform continued imagery development as the visual language evolves.
Peter identified Mount Madonna as his current best-case client, providing a clear template for future partnerships (12:42). The engagement demonstrates multiple characteristics that make accompaniment possible and valuable.
The organization faces a clear, urgent problem: change or disappear within five years. This creates genuine impetus for transformation rather than nice-to-have optimization. They maintain a very welcoming culture practiced through their yogic orientation, making multiple on-ramps available for Peter to integrate into their community.
The organizational culture values relationships and doesn't maintain elitist barriers, though Peter acknowledged they certainly have their own boundaries. The fifty-year-old retreat center had never previously engaged with the Santa Cruz Community Foundation because they lacked a philanthropy staff person, representing significant untapped potential.
Peter emphasized he's truly not interested in one-off engagements (22:58). While he'll do them if they offer other benefits, he's fundamentally oriented toward seeing transformation through rather than developing strategy and walking away. This distinguishes him in a culture he sees as over-indexed on cerebral work and ideas rather than action and implementation.
The accompaniment model positions Peter to remain valuable beyond the initial contract phases. His presence during Andy's donor meetings, his participation in community life, and his genuine care for the relationship create conditions where Mount Madonna is unlikely to want to lose him even after the formal engagement concludes.
Peter is using the Mount Madonna contract end date (likely May 31st) as a motivating deadline for website completion (32:33). While he knows the website won't directly replace that revenue, he wants a home base established for his work before that transition point.
His approach to the copy document involves working through sections and marking them complete for Ellen and James to review and work with (32:23). He'll continue updating the shared document and sending notifications when new sections are ready, maintaining momentum while the visual development progresses in parallel.
Ellen suggested the homepage is typically where people struggle most, so having completed that heavy lifting is significant progress (33:33). She recommended Peter continue writing about his services without worrying about final page structure. They can extract and reorganize content once more material exists, potentially pulling some service descriptions onto the homepage or shifting elements around.
The natural next step involves Ellen drafting some hero headline and subhead options based on the accompaniment discussion. James will continue refining the brand guidelines with updated typography, refined colors incorporating Peter's feedback, and development of accent elements and background components. Ellen will also curate additional imagery in the approved direction: textural, dynamic, showing movement and interconnectedness while avoiding chaotic compositions.
Ellen expressed excitement about working in Webflow [tag="webflow"] for the first time after designing exclusively in Squarespace for previous clients (49:33). She's looking forward to seeing how they can visualize what Peter is building with the expanded capabilities available.
The team agreed to continue iterating asynchronously with Peter tagging Ellen whenever he wants feedback, while planning to reconvene next week with more developed visual materials to review together.
Ellen
Peter
Draft homepage hero options based on accompaniment framework
February 5, 2026
Create headline and subhead options that capture the accompaniment concept more directly than current 'With You Together' / 'Uncommon Partnership' language. Consider phrases like 'We're here for real change' (32:23) that emerged naturally in conversation. Focus on punchy, clear language that communicates relationship-centered approach, action over inaction, and availability for both strategic and ground-level work without awkward positioning.
Share services page framework reference with Peter
February 1, 2026
Provide framework example to help Peter structure services content. Ellen suggested continuing to write about services without worrying about final page structure - can extract and reorganize once more material exists (33:33).
Update brand guidelines with refined typography and logo
February 5, 2026
Re-typeset Uncommon Partners lockup using cleaner typography direction (Peter preferred clear over funky, 46:00). Use typography option without personality details in M's, L's, and A's. Update guidelines document with refined logo treatment.
Refine color palette based on Peter's feedback
February 5, 2026
Update palette to emphasize: slate black, one blue option (could move slightly toward second blue but no pastels), dark forest green, moss green, brown, off-white. Peter responded positively to earth-toned palette with selective blue accents (40:45-42:00). Remove or de-emphasize colors he wasn't drawn to.
Add accent elements and background components to brand guidelines
February 8, 2026
Develop accent elements and background components section in brand guidelines. Should maintain clean, clear direction while adding personality without overwhelming. Reference Peter's preference for space and breathing room (49:03).
Curate additional imagery in approved direction
February 5, 2026
Find more images that are textural, dynamic, mysterious, showing movement and interconnectedness. Peter responded strongly to complex, layered images showing movement and contrast - specifically cluster of three on lower right (43:50). Avoid images that feel too chaotic or jumbled (44:26). Nature-adjacent without being obviously literal. Images should breathe with open space, similar to Peter's Beautiful AI searches for 'space' (49:03).
Share updated brand guidelines with Peter for review
February 8, 2026
After completing typography refinements, color palette updates, and accent elements additions, share updated brand guidelines document with Peter. Schedule review session if needed or get asynchronous feedback.
Continue writing website copy sections focusing on services
February 10, 2026
Continue working through copy document, focusing on services and other key pages. Don't worry about final page structure - Ellen can extract and reorganize content once more material exists (33:33). Mark sections complete and notify Ellen when ready for review. Homepage heavy lifting is done (33:33), which is typically where people struggle most.
Notify Ellen when copy document sections are updated and ready for review
February 10, 2026
Tag Ellen in shared document whenever sections are completed and ready for feedback. Continue iterating asynchronously while visual development progresses in parallel. Plan to reconvene next week with more developed visual materials.
Phase 2 website development for Peter's Ubiquity Community accompaniment practice. Core concept centers on 'accompaniment' - a relationship-centered approach distinct from traditional consulting, built on care and generosity rather than transactional boundaries. Visual direction emphasizes clarity over funkiness, with clean typography, earth-toned palette (slate black, blue accents, dark forest green, moss green, brown, off-white), and dynamic textural imagery showing movement and interconnectedness without chaos. Content development progressing through AI-assisted drafting refined for authentic voice, focusing on action over inaction and genuine availability for both strategic and ground-level work. Hero section needs refinement to capture accompaniment concept more directly. Timeline: Content drafting through December, brand guidelines refinement based on feedback by early January, design completion end of January, launch first two weeks of February.
00:00:00
Peter Wrinch: Um, so basically, like what I've done is I, after one of our meetings, like in November, I just like, took your document and said, fill this out cloud, just from what you know about me, since I've been working with you for a year, and it did.
And so that was all I literally had done until today. And then what I did today is I went into it.
And it was like, pretty much what you would expect. It was like very robotic. I mean, it had all the things, but it was just like very robotic.
And so I probably spent an hour and a half. And I just like rewrote with cloud, it was like actually an interesting, like I experiment what I was doing.
I love like working with it in new ways. But anyways, I basically, it's such a tool. Yeah, rewrote it.
So it's really just like, I think from your document, it's like the homepage, and, and, and, and and the about.
Right. I did two pages, the homepage and the about. And it, it feels like it feels good enough to me to like put on a website.
It's like, it's not a hundred percent, like it's not perfect, but it feels good enough to go on the web.
Like it's, it could be forward facing basically. Yeah.
00:01:21
Ellen Keith Shaw: And you know, that whole, that whole perfect thing is like, that'll really get you stuck. So I think, and two, even having it to this point, I think will be awesome because we can start to visualize it for you.
And then two, you'll see where it's working or where it's not, or where you want to cut. Like it will, I think once it becomes visual too, that will be huge.
Yeah. Yeah.
00:01:47
Peter Wrinch: It, um, it, uh, I was trying to get rid of this bot thing, but it's, I'll, I'll try not to get started.
know it's, yeah. Um, I see it too. It, um, it. Yeah, like I noticed actually even by the end of the about section, I wasn't sure about the beginning of the homepage.
So it's like good to just engage in in that way. So, so yeah, like, I don't know exactly how you want to work in this session.
There's like questions I have, but I'm happy to just like submit to your process.
00:02:24
Ellen Keith Shaw: No, I mean, it's kind of like what feels like it's most useful. So questions are great. But my process is like getting online, looking at whatever you want me to look at with you.
Really, I should spend some time like asynchronously too. But it's also great just to get on here and yeah, see what is feeling like a stuck place or where you're looking for feedback or yeah, what your questions are.
So I welcome them. Okay, well, why don't we start there then?
00:02:52
Peter Wrinch: Um, so I can see you're in the doc. So like, if I start on like page two that like where it says hero section.
00:03:00
Ellen Keith Shaw: You know what, maybe what I'll do, I'm gonna like, we'll let you share screen just so we can see exactly where you're at.
00:03:07
Peter Wrinch: Okay. Excellent. Yeah. So one of the questions I have, and like, as you know from our conversations, like, this is all like a bit of a learning process for me.
Not like the website, but just like this life I'm living. And even this, like, last week I was in Mount Madonna, was like getting clearer about like what it is I'm offering, you know, because I was just there for a week, just like being with them.
Really like in this, like, if I scroll down here. you. Thank Thank I think, okay, so there's a couple things.
And basically what, so my question, my like really only question right now is like this part, like with you together and then Uncommon Partnership in the Ordinary and Extraordinary.
Like I wrote that first, but then when I got to the end of my writing today, I was like, I don't know if that fits anymore.
Um, like basically what I'm trying to say is, so what, what became, what was like coming through very clearly for me was this concept of accompaniment, which I've talked to you about.
And really like when I was at Mount Madonna this week or last week, um, that was really at the center for me.
Like I was, you know, like, of course there's like a way I am. That's like, I'm like, I have expertise, but I'm like really.
Like, I'm really with them. I'm not, like, standing back and, like, being, like, oh, you should do this. And so that's where I was, like, getting to this, like, with you together.
Like, an interesting example of this is, like, when I was in Santa Cruz, so I was taking all these meetings with them, and I was really, like, I was, like, a third, you know, there was the ED, there was this development person that I've hired, and now I'm training.
And then I was just, like, this third stringer, right? Like, but they would default to me on certain questions, but it wasn't, yeah, like, so this is what I'm trying to get at, this with you together.
So that, like, there's something about that that feels right, and there's something about the, like, wording that feels awkward to me.
And then, um, the second question I think that I have is, um, if you read through... Here, I'm really, like, I really use this concept of, like, uncommon, like, these people, like, me and whoever I'm, like, bringing in are, like, these uncommon people, and there's something that feels a little incoherent to use this word.
But what I'm trying to say there is that, like, I kind of vomit when I think about, like, these experts or, like, strategists, and this is, like, the type of language that was in here when Cloud just did by itself, like, counsel and strategy, that, like, really only are into the, like, big questions, you know?
Of course, I'm into that, too. But I also want to transmit that I'm, like, I'm with you. Like, nothing is so, nothing is below me, basically, is what I'm trying to do.
And of course, that's, like, not true, but, like, you know, like, I sat in a meeting at Mount Madonna last week where they were talking about literally, like, should we build a, should we replace our, like, 30-year-old hot tubs or should we, like, get a sauna?
Yeah. And I'm, like, you know, not my interest, like, not, like, it's not of interest to me, to be honest, but it's something I did at Hollyhock.
Like, and so I could, like, play in the conversation. It's nothing I'd want to build my business around, but I can be there for the ordinary, I guess is kind of, like, what I'm trying to get across.
Mm-hmm. So that truly is, like, my only question in this. I think the rest, if you, you just, like, read it through on your own time and just be, like, like, I hear what's coming through or I don't.
Yep.
00:07:58
Ellen Keith Shaw: Okay. Some thoughts. You were kind of mid-thought when you were saying, so you were at Mount Madonna with you and the person you're training and the ED, and then you were saying they kept kind of defaulting to you, but that kind of stopped midway.
Was that where?
00:08:15
Peter Wrinch: Yeah, like, what was really interesting to me about the week there, in terms of, like, what's on offer, right, is, like, the way the trip was framed was, like, this guy named Andy.
So we hired Andy on December 1st. I spent so much time with him online in December, like, way more than they probably expected, and it was, like, a total pleasure for me, and, like, it was wonderful.
Because I really see, like, I need Andy to be successful, because if he's successful, then I feel super confident in, like, what I did.
I think that, I mean, think Mount Donald will refer me forever, but, like, do you know what mean? Like, it's just, like, his success, mine success.
Did before this time together is we set up all these meetings. And so I would go with Andy and often the ED was there too.
Like, so the meetings were like with potential donors and things like that. And Andy ran, like he ran it.
I was just there as like, kind of like if, if it fumbled, or if, like, I don't know, the bottom fell out for a second, like, I could kind of bring us back.
And then after Andy, like, I would be like, hey, this is what I think you did really well. This is like, what maybe you can work on next time.
What did you think about this? Like, it was more like that. Yeah.
00:10:41
Ellen Keith Shaw: Awesome. Yeah.
00:10:43
Peter Wrinch: Okay.
00:10:47
Ellen Keith Shaw: Well, for me, yeah, I think the hero and the subhead need some need some work. I think what's interesting when we write is things can feel quite obvious to us because we're like in it.
00:10:58
Peter Wrinch: And we
00:11:00
Ellen Keith Shaw: We want it to feel different. We don't want it to feel like everything else. And we also don't want to make people work too hard to make it really clear what you're about.
And so for me, it seems that the accompaniment piece in our conversations is like you're, well, I think you've got a lot of differentiators, but that seems to be just like a really strong one.
Does that feel right? And I don't necessarily know if that's like the word where you, I mean, I'm sure we use that somewhere in the copy.
I'm not sure that belongs in the header or subheader, but like how, well, two thoughts. would love you to talk just again a little bit about accompaniment.
I know you've talked about this on other calls, but I just think it's like good to hear it. The bot's recording it.
I had an experience. It's with another client where she was just having such a hard time writing like literally all of her copy.
And so we just had like conversations about her why and her I saw you have like a values thing and all of the content from her site just like emerged out of those conversations, basically.
And then we refined it and tweaked it. But I think that these conversations can be really interesting places for new things to potentially emerge.
Yeah. So and so the company met. then also, I mean, you're already leaning into this, but that you've just had this experience that Mount Madonna's ideal client.
Is that right?
00:12:42
Peter Wrinch: Yeah, they're like my kind of best case client right now. Excellent. Cool.
00:12:48
Ellen Keith Shaw: So lean like it again. I hear you're already doing this, but as much as possible, like leaning into, OK, I just had that experience.
And so what about that was just right. And how can I communicate that in my. And yeah, I just wrote like a letter out for my clients.
Yeah. Did I send it to you? I don't think so.
00:13:11
Peter Wrinch: Okay.
00:13:11
Ellen Keith Shaw: Maybe I'll forward it to you. And what it was, was I was just like leveraging my experience with this one client that I was in pretty deep with at that moment.
Like all, like, I was like, these are the things I'm doing for her. And this is actually really valuable.
And I thought, you know, if I wasn't so in that process right now, I wouldn't be able to articulate it as well.
But it's like such a sweet spot.
00:13:33
Peter Wrinch: Get it out of you, you know, so. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's. Yeah, no, Ellen, I totally appreciate all that.
And I think like, that's the power of Fathom too, right? It's like, you can take these notes. I'm like, um, totally.
So I think like, if I like lean towards Mount Madonna, and like, why? Because like, I think that there's two things going on with Mount Madonna.
Wow. One is that. Like for me, from my vantage point, and from my experience, it's an amazing client. Like, not only is it like, you know, paying well, and it's great people.
That's like another huge thing. And I write some of this in here, it's like that I'm very picky, but like, the people are well practiced, like they're very good people.
Um, they, they have a very clear problem, right? Like, this is also like, really important to me is they have, and so they have a real impetus for wanting to change.
Like, they're not like, just like, oh, we're rolling along, and it'd be really nice if we had this. They're like, oh, , like, we need to change or we're gonna disappear in five years.
Um, I think that, I think that what's also really good about them, and then also Also, this plays into, like, what I think I'm doing well with them, is they, I experience them as incredibly welcoming.
So, like, as a part of their good people-ness and their good practice, is they're very, like, come in, like, welcome in.
They're not, like, in any way, like, elitist or, like, you have to pass a bunch of tests to get in.
And, like, they're pretty, and not to say that they don't have their barrier, for sure they do, actually, as I'm saying this out loud.
But I think that they've given, like, they've made available to me a number of on-ramps to their culture, and I've taken them.
And so, like, an example I'll give is, like, we went to, one of the meetings we had was with the Santa Cruz Community Foundation.
And so we went to the, so, first of all, they've never, they've been a lot, they've been around. For 50 years, they've never met with the Community Foundation because they've never had a philanthropy person.
And so we go to this meeting with the Community Foundation. I'm like there as like the third stringer again, but I'm like, I'm like introduced in the room as almost as if I'm a team member.
I was really impressed. The ED, I mean, it is Santa Cruz after all, but the ED was like, we started the meeting and she's like, oh, we have a practice of doing a grounding.
Like this is the Mount Madonna ED. And then she turns to me, she's like, can you do it? And I just like, yeah, totally.
I just happened to have the Bahagavad Gita in my bag. So I was like, yeah, sure. And you know, I think like there that like, there's something going on where like, I understand what they are.
And I like, it's, it's not in any way transactional or Fantastic. um, Or, like, performative, but I also, like, am aware enough, you know, like, that I'm, like, oh, like, I'm hanging out with Mount Madonna, they're, like, they're a yogic center, I'll bring my Bhagavad Gita, like, do you know what mean?
Like, it's, there's, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I think that, like, that, and then, like, on the accompaniment piece, you know, I've been really thinking about, like, what is this accompaniment?
Like, what is it? And I think, like, on some level, it's like a willingness to lean towards, right? Like, as, like, I mean, I don't know how you frame yourself, but, like, I, some people frame me as a consultant, right?
Like, they're, like, you're a consultant, like, you know, and, like, sometimes I can frame myself that way, but I lean towards.
And I lean towards, I was talking to my coach about this, and he said values of care and generosity.
And so it's like, because I have some people in my life who have maybe been consultants before, and they're like, why are you doing that for free, man?
Or like, why are you, you know, an easy question would be like, why are you going to Santa Cruz for a week?
Like, why are you hanging out with them on a Saturday? Like, do you know what mean? Like, it's very easy to get to that place of like, um.
It's like a barrier.
00:18:34
Ellen Keith Shaw: Like, that's a clear, like, I'm the consultant, you're the client. Yeah, exactly. blurring, that's the company that maybe is blurring those.
Exactly.
00:18:43
Peter Wrinch: Like, and it's like, and it's not to say, like, I think that this is important, it is an important growth edge for me.
It's like, you know, I went, and it was like, I went from a Thursday to a Wednesday. And so there's a Saturday, Sunday.
Saturday, hung out with them. And Sunday, I just like went surfing and went. Like, I'm not a friend. And so it's like, I'm not, I'm not like at your disposal all the time.
But I'm like, caring and generous enough to see what your need is, and to be there for that. And I think that like, what, what, I think that's like, where I was trying to go with the ordinary thing is I'm not just there for the big strategic discussion, like, so I can give you all my expertise.
I'm actually there for like, you know, Mount Madonna has a residential community. So it's like, and I'm eating all my meals there.
So it's like, sometimes I would sit by myself over on a table by myself. And other times I just joined the little community dinner and like, talk about 49ers, whatever the hell that is, you know, like, like, so that that's kind of what the accompaniment is, like, it's, it's an, in a lot of ways.
It's an orientation, more than it is like a service. Does that make sense?
00:20:11
Ellen Keith Shaw: Orientation. Talk to me about like how you're orienting to the relationship? Yes, exactly.
00:20:16
Peter Wrinch: That's what I mean. It's like I used to have this friend, well, I still have this friend, and we would go to conferences together or whatever.
And I would always want to get an Airbnb with like six other people, and he'd be like, he could not understand.
was like, dude, like, why are getting an Airbnb? We're not in grad school, like, get a hotel. And I was just like, yeah, no, like, I actually, to me, the experience is about the people.
It's like, not actually about the conference. Yeah. There's like something that's coming up for me. Hold on, just let me grab it.
me go. Let's Let's go. Let's go. It's like somewhat important right now, I think. Have you read this book?
It's just like on tyranny. No. Oh, I've heard about this. Yeah, it's like everywhere. But it just opened to the page.
So it's very, it's like these little essays. And so number 12 is make eye contact and small talk. This is not just polite.
It's part of being a citizen and a responsible member of society. It is also a way to stay in touch with your surroundings, break down social barriers, and understand whom you should and should not trust.
And it's like, I think that like, I like walked in circles before that like can kind of like, look down on small talk.
And I think like I can occasionally too. But it's like, actually a huge part of a company, man. It's like actually knowing people.
Mm-hmm.-hmm. Mm Mm
00:22:05
Ellen Keith Shaw: Yeah. So it's like using your language, it's how the orientation is actually to the partnership. I was saying relationship, but how you're orienting to the partnership is uncommon from how other, because technically you are a consultant every year, right?
Like, so how other consultancies might partner, you're actually very uncommon because of this approach to it.
00:22:31
Peter Wrinch: Yeah, exactly. Like you nailed it. Yeah. And it's funny when I was like, I just like, I'll scroll down for a sec.
When I was doing the values, which like, I'll just say I'm not like, like, I've been a lot of values processes and like, I find them all mostly terrible.
But I felt like there was some, there was, this was kind of at the end and there was some stuff coming through for me.
00:22:58
Ellen Keith Shaw: So like,
00:23:00
Peter Wrinch: This felt really important to me, is like, I'm really actually not interested in one-off engagements. I'm just like, not really interested in it.
It's true. Yeah. Like, you know, it's to say I won't do them, you know, but like, they have to have a whole bunch of other benefits to do them.
And then the other one was kind of this. It's like, and Ellen, this is kind of hard for me, because like, I, you know, I told you I use Enneagram, and I like, I kind of have this Enneagram 3 energy, this really like, how do we move this forward?
But as I get older, I'm like, really starting to see the power. And like, I'm not saying that in like, idealistic way, I literally could mean like money, of being actually concerned about the relationship.
Mm-hmm.
00:24:02
Ellen Keith Shaw: You know? Say that again. The money people.
00:24:05
Peter Wrinch: Like, actually, I'll illustrate with an example. So right now, so my contract with Mount Madonna ends, I think it's either May 31st or June 30th.
It's one of those days. Probably May 31st. And it was like a very lucrative contract for me for one year.
Mm-hmm. And that, to lose that, like, that whatever work, it will put a hole in my work, like, in my corporation.
And so, like, I'm, you know, I'm thinking about, okay, how do I replace it? How do I find the next Mount Madonna?
But I'm also thinking, like, I think Mount Madonna will not want to say goodbye to me. Right. They won't.
They compare me at the same level, right? You're right. That will probably not happen. I can't see it. But I actually think because I cared equally about the relationship and the results, I think they'll be like, oh, my God, we can't lose this guy.
And so, you know, it'll probably turn into something like, I don't know, my sort of best case scenario would be like a quarter of what it's worth right now to me.
But even that.
00:25:31
Ellen Keith Shaw: Yeah. Yeah. And more of like an advisory role. Like, what's different?
00:25:38
Peter Wrinch: Like, I think if I had to guess, it would be like, so my contract with them is three phases.
One was to find the strategy. Then it was hire the person. And then it's like coaching for success. And so that's where I am now.
Yeah, yeah. And I think my guess is they'll say, especially if we hit our goal early. We're my Which we're like, something to do.
I think they'll say, we just want to keep you on for another year of coaching and figure out how that works.
00:26:11
Ellen Keith Shaw: Yeah, that continually coaching them for success. And this meeting that they had that was with someone they'd never met with before, that was a result of your coaching?
00:26:23
Peter Wrinch: Yeah, I mean, it's coaching and strategy, it's all of it, but it's like, you know, I did not, yeah, I guess I would say it's like, it came out of the strategy.
And then it's like me kind of working with Andy to say like, hey, like, let's set up this meeting, let's set up this meeting.
And what I'm doing with Andy, which also feels really aligned to like how I want to work is this one, actually, which is action over inaction.
And I like, can. Not like, well, I just, it's not even, I cannot stand. I just will not do like things that are not focused on actually doing things.
And so one of the things I've been saying with Andy is like, let's just get meetings on the books.
Like, and yeah, we'll prepare for them. Like we can prepare and do our best, but like, we're just getting the reps in, man.
Like we're going in. Yeah, totally.
00:27:24
Ellen Keith Shaw: Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. And it is value. like, I'm in a program right now with NLP Marin.
Have you heard of those guys? It's super fascinating. What are they called? NLP Marin. I don't think so. They have a God awful website and I wish they could redesign it.
Apparently they had a redesign not that long ago.
00:27:50
Peter Wrinch: They need a new brand.
00:27:51
Ellen Keith Shaw: It looks like the eighties, but they, I'm doing a class with them called dimensional mind approach, which is like, you know, getting to.
Away from your, like, self-conscious beliefs and tapping more into, like, your super conscious. And anyway, it's, like, how you're basically making things happen.
But he was, like, it's really tempting to just say the things, you know, but you have to, like, then there's the actually, like, doing.
And so the reps is really important. And my coach that I'm working with has done a lot of work with NLP Marin, and that's why I'm studying with them some.
And she, yeah, I'm going have to look somewhere for my notes, and I'll make a note of it here, just because it's very closely related, about, like, you know, it's not, like, trying and failing.
She has, like, a totally other word for it. Like, it's, yeah, the reps. Yeah.
00:28:47
Peter Wrinch: It's so interesting. Like, I don't, I just, I think I've talked to you about this before, but, like. Like, our experience of humans, right?
Like, And like, especially in our culture is like, or at least like, okay, sorry, let me back up how I have experienced our culture is that like, we're super over indexed cerebral.
And so like, especially in places like where I live, where you live, it's like, who has the best idea?
Like, let's talk ideas. And like, what I generally think is that we do not have a shortage of ideas.
We have a shortage of action. I agree with you fully. Yes. So, so I think like part of the accompaniment, like why this links to accompaniment is that like, I'm not interested.
Again, why Mt. Madonna is a really great client is I'm actually not interested in developing a strategy and then walking away.
Again, Ellen, of course, I'll do it like, you know, and I have done it. But what I'm way more interested in is seeing transformation.
I'm I'm trying. trying. I'm transformation through. Is there something about, like, I'm in the room with you, or, you know, like, you're there?
00:30:07
Ellen Keith Shaw: Yeah, it's, I think that showed up a couple places.
00:30:11
Peter Wrinch: Let me just see. Yeah, so it's like, we don't, we don't write reports that sit on shelves. And really, like, for me, this is like, I, this line was really, like, very real for me.
ACTION ITEM: Draft homepage hero options (headline + subhead) for Peter - WATCH
It's like, I just truly, do not have time. Yeah, totally. Like, legitimately, you don't.
00:30:33
Ellen Keith Shaw: Legitimately, like, yeah, you know, I'm 51. I like this. Yeah, I'm reading, I mean, reading the copy is speaking to me much more than, like, the headline right now.
that's, like, whatever the headline is, is, it's hard, and it should emerge out of the thing. I think we just, like, we'll iterate on it.
And, you know, I can come up with some that might feel about time. You know, I'm not like a copywriter, but I do feel like I love walking with people through the process of making suggestions and having a discussion is super interesting.
00:31:10
Peter Wrinch: Yeah, that's what I mean. Like, I think that the, like, as I was going through the copy, it got better.
I really felt like it was getting better. And like, again, like, it's not, like, it's, this is really my take on websites.
It's like, doesn't have to be a 10 out of 10. But as long as Nate, like, even looking at this line, I don't love this line, like a more aligned version.
so like, what the hell does that mean? But at the same time, it's like, it's, I, and I, I felt that even when I was writing it, but I'm like, it doesn't need to be perfect right now.
It just needs to be like, good enough.
00:31:48
Ellen Keith Shaw: Yeah, I worked with a writing coach who called it like the first draft. She's like, you just have to like, and not saying this is , but you just like, you just like, get it, get it out.
Like, in your values, when you scroll down. You know, I love this line, like, we're here for real change.
Like, for me, that's, like, almost like a header, you know, like, that's, that is, I know what exactly what you're talking about with those words, you know, and so something like punchy.
And obviously, like, James will be looking at this, and we'll have his take. He's so, like, wise and good at this stuff.
So you'll have both of us on it.
00:32:23
Peter Wrinch: But, yeah, I think, I think, like, I'll continue to think about this, the top part, but, like, otherwise, like, I think that, like, what I, what my plan was is just to go through all the sections.
And basically, what I'm doing is to do this in my doc is I do this. I don't see the, oh, yeah.
But, and it just shows, like, where it's complete to. And so everything about that is for you to think about or do whatever you do.
Because, again, like, kind of as we're. As we're talking, right, it's like my orientation is towards action, and I'm also using, like, to be totally frank, I'm using the Mount Madonna end as, like, a really good deadline for me.
Like, I really do need to replace Mount Madonna, and I know that it's, like, not, and I'm working on it.
It's not going to come from a website, but I really want to be able to have a website so that I can, like, have a home, you know?
00:33:28
Ellen Keith Shaw: Yeah, yeah, and we want you to have your home well before June, so. Yeah, exactly.
00:33:33
Peter Wrinch: We got you, yeah.
00:33:38
Ellen Keith Shaw: Okay, and I think what might help you, too, is, or at least, like, I mean, you've kind of done the heavy lifting.
ACTION ITEM: Find and share services-page framework w/ Peter - WATCH
The homepage is usually where people really struggle, so I'll sometimes have people write about, like, their services first. Yep.
I know we're trying to decide, gosh. I need to look back at like a suggested framework because basically like you can talk about your services as much as you want and then we can like extract from that how you would guide people from the homepage to there.
You know, like you don't necessarily have to like totally rewrite it or people will write more than they need to and I'll pull some of that out and put it on the homepage, like kind of start shifting things around.
Yeah. So I don't think we were thinking at all of these each being their own page, right? Like this is like our services is its own page but it's going to talk about the different ways people can work with you.
Yeah, totally.
00:34:39
Peter Wrinch: Like to be honest, like I hadn't thought about that very much. Like I think like what I'm trying to do here is put content down that makes like sense to me.
And then like we get, as you just said, like we can cut or like pick and choose basically. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.
Yeah. Great. Yeah, yeah. Well, excellent. You got in there.
00:35:10
Ellen Keith Shaw: like, ripped off the band-aid. Good job. I know.
00:35:12
Peter Wrinch: I'm so glad I did. Like, and it was actually quite enjoyable for me, but I, because I think, like, I was kind of, like, it was sort of one of those things, like, I was a bit, like, dready, but I'm glad that I, yeah, got in there.
So I'll just keep plugging away at it. I'll just send you notes, like, I'll just send you messages, like, hey, I updated this, updated that, and, yeah, and then, like, I guess, like, and I don't know if you know the answer to this question, but, like, how does it go from this to, like, and I guess, like, is James working on design, like, conceptual design?
ACTION ITEM: Update brand guidelines: re-typeset logo; refine colors per Peter; add accents; share w/ Peter - WATCH
00:35:47
Ellen Keith Shaw: Yeah, yeah, so, um, I can share with you. So he and I have been working a bit on, like, a draft of a style guide, and I've actually had, it's been a
It's hard to catch him, but I did leave him a message this morning saying, I want to show Peter something visual so he can see what we're doing.
So it's like, it's a little half-baked, but I think it will still be good for you to see something.
And yeah, and this is the first right website that I've done with him. I'm kind of leaning on his process and figuring out, but my sense or the natural flow, I would think with this would be, you'll look at a style guide.
We can take a look at that next. And we'll kind of decide on typography and a palette and imagery, and then we'll start designing the site, using that in your words, and it will start to come together that way.
ACTION ITEM: Curate imagery per Peter: textural, dynamic, movement, interconnectedness; avoid chaotic; share w/ Peter - WATCH
So that's generally the way it goes. That makes sense.
00:36:47
Peter Wrinch: Yeah.
00:36:48
Ellen Keith Shaw: So we're like, and that was what I was kind of telling him is I searched for images and I was like, it's a little hard for me to know what images, because we don't have any words and we don't even know if we'll use words.
But I'm just going to kind of, or images, but I'm going to pull some things that feel like they evoke the realm that we've been talking in, just to make sure that we're on track.
Yep. So let me go ahead and share.
00:37:12
Peter Wrinch: Sure. Great.
00:37:16
Ellen Keith Shaw: And I can kind of talk you through, like, yeah, where he's, where he's working and where I'm working. There we go.
That's what I want to share. Okay. All right. Yes. Great. You can see this.
00:37:40
Peter Wrinch: I can, yeah.
00:37:40
Ellen Keith Shaw: So what we started, hang on. I'm still, like, kind of learning my way around. I know I'm, like, the only, well, I can't possibly be the only one because it's Google, but I'm really trying to keep my whole business under one roof.
00:37:53
Peter Wrinch: Yeah.
00:37:53
Ellen Keith Shaw: I'm still trying to adjust to, like. I, like, fully understand.
00:37:57
Peter Wrinch: And I, I, like, I use Zoom, but, like, I. I. I like went through a process, but I was just like, and basically the reason why I stuck with Zoom is because I know it.
00:38:06
Ellen Keith Shaw: Yeah, it's, I mean, it's, yeah, it's.
00:38:11
Peter Wrinch: Google, Google Meet has gotten a lot better.
00:38:13
Ellen Keith Shaw: It has. They're really, they're, they're working on it. Yeah. Okay, so what, okay, you're going to be this way, aren't you?
I'm going to try this instead. And where are you going to let me do this? Hold on. No, I'll get there.
There we go. Okay, great. So, yeah, very, very rough. But basically what James and I were talking about, because we didn't have the, like, vector for the Uncommon Partners logo.
Well, So, yeah. More like, well, let's try some like different typography. Let's clean up the Enzo symbol and see if we can add like more energy to it.
And so James's real strength is in like illustrative, really like he's so artistic creating the artwork. And so he was working on the Enzo symbol and I've been working on some typography ideas.
And this is generally like what the brand guidelines will contain is these things, all the things that are normally you've seen these.
I am very, very super draft of brand guidelines. We don't need to read this, but it will kind of carry the essence of what this is about.
So, and so, yeah, we, and actually I think the next one will be more easy to see kind of these, these differences.
Let me kind of move through here, but like looking at different lockups and how we might play with it.
And so this is kind of wonderful. Right.
00:40:00
Peter Wrinch: Like, so we're looking at headers.
00:40:02
Ellen Keith Shaw: Here's body copy miscellaneous and that lockup.
00:40:06
Peter Wrinch: Very clean. Very clean. like it. Yeah.
00:40:10
Ellen Keith Shaw: And then this one almost like you're actually reminds me a little of your poster behind there. Like, it looks like the M's.
So this one has like a little more like, you know, the L's.
00:40:22
Peter Wrinch: Yeah.
00:40:22
Ellen Keith Shaw: A little more the A's. Right. There's some a little more funkiness to it, but still clean. So I would say, yeah, very, very clean.
A little more like personality. And then James kind of took a first stab at brand colors.
00:40:45
Peter Wrinch: Definitely in the right direction. Definitely in the right direction. Yeah. Yeah.
00:40:49
Ellen Keith Shaw: And so kind of my question for him was if we show you kind of like a secondary version, it's it's pretty hard.
This it's everything's a starting point, right? Like we have to start somewhere and then we. Implement it in the design and then that's where you really see how it comes to life.
But it's good for us to know like we're in the right realm.
00:41:07
Peter Wrinch: Definitely. And like way off in left field. So if I was looking at this right now, the colors that appeal to me, you know, you've kind of nailed them, like the slate black, the blue one.
I would say like I have some. I can move a little bit to blue, too. Mm hmm. But I don't I'm not like a huge pastels guy.
So that's like where as we continue on, I'm not as and then the dark forest green and the moss green are really right on like I think.
And then the brown, too, is is really cool. And then the off-white and the accent are really great, too.
Mm hmm. So I think you kind of nailed it. Like you heard. I feel heard. I feel good. Oh, good.
00:41:53
Ellen Keith Shaw: Well, it gets really fun when it gets visual. Right. And that's I mean, I wanted you to see something just.
Because it changes the dimension of what we're doing. And so this is the realm that James is in, right?
So he's going to be adding a lot to accent and elements. So I don't have anything there yet because we're not there.
But that will be, yeah, like background images, the different components. think the things that will really make it come to life and perhaps like seeing the copy will help him too.
But he's definitely making progress in that section. I took a stab at the photography and imagery. So what I heard from you and our conversations was that it could be, where's the next page?
Come on. The next page is really the exciting one. See, I mean, I love this image, but it was, did it?
Hang on, because I was trying to clean up and get rid of pages you didn't need to see just yet.
Yeah. It's here. That is, okay, well, we might just do, we'll just go away in here.
00:43:08
Peter Wrinch: Are you, yeah, great.
00:43:10
Ellen Keith Shaw: Yeah, so what I was hearing with you was this idea of, it can be nature, it's not obviously nature, we're not like hitting them over the head with nature, but it could be, like the words I was thinking was like textural, dynamic, like showing movement, interconnectedness, you know, I really loved like this kind of thing in particular, so I don't know.
00:43:38
Peter Wrinch: of these photos, like the one that you, on the far right at the bottom, that is really cool, the sort of right complex are really cool to me, that, that, and that.
00:43:50
Ellen Keith Shaw: This one, this one, this one? Yeah, sort of very cool.
00:43:53
Peter Wrinch: This little block, okay. Yeah, all the reasons you said, all the reasons you said, it's like. And it's mysterious, but it's also like shows movement, contrasts, like all the things you said.
Okay, cool.
00:44:10
Ellen Keith Shaw: So that's helpful, right? Like that's an excellent starting place where we can do more of that. And then, you know, again, I have no idea just yet how imagery like photography would even, will even play in, but it's good to know that we're like in the right language.
Yeah.
00:44:26
Peter Wrinch: I feel like I want to show you something. And how is this one for you? I'm curious. this, okay, so for me, this is a little too jumbled.
It's like, it's a little too much for me. Okay. And there's something going on for me with that image.
Okay. Okay. Thank you. Sorry. It's a little too chaotic for me. Sure. Great. That's what's going on for me, I think.
Excellent. Yeah.
00:45:09
Ellen Keith Shaw: That's super helpful to hear. Yeah. And it's, you know, I did have this really weird experience when I was looking through images, is I kind of find myself, some of them were like very obviously altered by AI, like heavily.
Yeah. And so I've never had that experience, like looking through image. It's like, I feel like it's a new way, you know?
00:45:28
Peter Wrinch: And so I'm like, is that real?
00:45:30
Ellen Keith Shaw: What am I, I don't even know anymore.
00:45:33
Peter Wrinch: Yeah. 100%. Yeah.
00:45:36
Ellen Keith Shaw: I mean, yeah, this, this energy, this like kind of kinetic, you know, things.
00:45:40
Peter Wrinch: I liked that. So, yeah. Okay. Very cool.
00:45:44
Ellen Keith Shaw: So, yeah, I mean, we're only on Tuesday. I don't really, you know, I think we're just going to keep working on this.
Let's actually, let's talk about this and if this is feeling.
00:45:53
Peter Wrinch: So it's, it's so fascinating for me, this, this type of thing. So if I was choosing, I would choose.
I this. I think for me, I choose, I am more attracted to clear than I am otherwise. And so when I, yeah, like this is too much for me.
Great. The font is too thick.
00:46:21
Ellen Keith Shaw: And does this, are you, how are you feeling about us? Like, you know, re-type setting your logo and things like Oh, totally fine.
00:46:28
Peter Wrinch: Yeah. I think it looks amazing. Yeah. Literally what I did with that logo was I used one of those like AI logo designers.
It wasn't like a free one. It was like, I think it costs like 60 bucks or something. Yeah. And it gave me all the assets, but no, I think it's great.
00:46:47
Ellen Keith Shaw: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think from all the things we've, we've heard, you know, it's, it still has personality, you know, it still isn't, it isn't void of personality, but it's very like clear.
00:46:56
Peter Wrinch: Yeah. And clean and, yeah.
00:47:00
Ellen Keith Shaw: Yeah. So, I mean, maybe we play in kind of this realm and see how it starts to shape up.
00:47:05
Peter Wrinch: Yeah, totally. I think that's great. Let me show you one thing before we hop off. Okay. Yeah, you can see that.
Okay. So, I've been using, for presentations recently, I've been using Beautiful AI. At first I found it really annoying, and now I really like it.
Thanks. But I just want to show you a couple of presentations I've done recently that gives you a sense of the type of imagery I'm using.
Now, keep in mind that, like, this is not my website. These are all for clients, and it's mostly about Madonna.
But I think it does give you a sense of... What, I can't remember, this one I just did last, oh yeah, this one is not, this was like for a board, and I was using like Mount Madonna Images, but like, what's this, okay, so like, I mean, very boring, but like, it gives you a sense of like sky, and then, okay, let's come back here.
I'm trying to find a more interesting one, I think this, so this was in November, right, like stuff like this, this again is, this is actually Watershed, so it's like, I'm going to see this one.
00:49:03
Ellen Keith Shaw: Yeah, same image, like, yeah, maybe that's it.
00:49:12
Peter Wrinch: So it was less interesting than I thought, but it gives you a sense, like, I think, like, when I said space, like, I find myself, like, because in Beautiful AI, can, like, search for images, and I find myself often writing, like, space.
00:49:33
Ellen Keith Shaw: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I got you. think we'll, I don't know, I gotta say, I've been real impressed with some of the stuff that James and his people come up with visually, so I'm really excited, you know, to see.
I always design in Squarespace with all my clients, so this is actually the first time I've worked in Webflow, so I'm looking forward to seeing, like, how we can visualize, like, what it is you're up to, so I'm sure it'll be great.
And I think it sounds like we're. on the right path, and we'll just keep it moving.
00:50:03
Peter Wrinch: Okay. Sounds good. Well, great to see you.
00:50:07
Ellen Keith Shaw: Good to see you. Thanks so much. And, yeah, I'll chime in here and totally tag me anytime you want to look at something, and we'll just keep it moving, and I'll check back in next week or something, and hopefully have more visual stuff for you.
Sounds good.
00:50:23
Peter Wrinch: Okay. Okay. Take care, Peter. Thank you. Bye. Bye.
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur.
Block quote
Ordered list
Unordered list
Bold text
Emphasis
Superscript
Subscript
.svg%20(1).png){kind=icon}
.png)
