00:00:25

Peter Wrinch: It.

00:01:16

James Redenbaugh: Hey Peter.

00:01:17

Peter Wrinch: James. How's it going?

00:01:20

James Redenbaugh: It's going well. How are you?

00:01:22

Peter Wrinch: Not bad. Good to. Good to hear your voice. I haven't seen you yet.

00:01:27

James Redenbaugh: I'm connecting my camera.

00:01:29

Peter Wrinch: Yeah, yeah. Are you married yet?

00:01:33

James Redenbaugh: Like two and a half weeks.

00:01:34

Peter Wrinch: Yeah, that's what I thought.

00:01:38

James Redenbaugh: Coming up quick.

00:01:39

Peter Wrinch: Yeah, totally can't believe it.

00:01:44

James Redenbaugh: Have you had a good summer?

00:01:47

Peter Wrinch: Yeah, it's been pretty good. It's. I. I tried to slow down in. Oh, there you are. I tried to slow down in August and I did accomplish that for the most part.

00:02:08

James Redenbaugh: Great. Yeah, I was trying not to slow down but I did.

00:02:13

Peter Wrinch: Yeah.

00:02:15

James Redenbaugh: Life forced me to.

00:02:17

Peter Wrinch: Yeah.

00:02:18

James Redenbaugh: Hi Ellen. Hey Ellen, good to see you. Happy to introduce you to Peter. Peter, Ellen.

00:02:25

Peter Wrinch: Hey Ellen, nice to meet you. You look like you're in like a co working space or we work or something like that. Yeah. Where? It's a nice one. It's a nice one that we work in Vancouver. It's like it really looks like interrogation cells. Yeah, My last fall was just in Sebastian. Totally. There's only really one, isn't there? Not Washington, British Columbia. Well, here's even closer coincidence. I am not in Vancouver. I live on Bowen island which is right beside West Vancouver. We sometimes joke that it is like just part of West Vancouver, although it really is not. But.

00:03:36

James Redenbaugh: Yeah. So here we are in the virtual world and I'm very excited to start in this project that we've had planned for some time now. And my intention for this call is one, Luke Allen into the process and introduce her and get on the same page together. Two, start listening to you Peter, about your hopes and dreams and goals for this project and finding out more. And three, laying out, starting to lay out a plan of action and schedule and talk about the process. Awesome. Cool. So any questions before we jump in?

00:04:26

Peter Wrinch: No, I think it all. It all, it all makes sense. And just like I hope you can bear with me as I probably will have some answers and some half baked answers to questions.

00:04:40

James Redenbaugh: Great. And having questions instead of answers is fine as well. And sometimes, especially on initial calls like this, I think it's good to start with like a few moments of silence or a meditation Or. Or something like that. Usually I ask our clients to. To lead that. If there's anything particular in those domains that you like to do, Peter, love to open the space for that.

00:05:12

Peter Wrinch: Yeah, for sure. Let me just grab something. I hope. I hope it's here. If not, it's okay. But. Yeah, I can. I can. I'm gonna. I'm gonna ad libit the books inside, but I have this book. Ellen. I was the CEO of Hollyhock, a retreat center in British Columbia for seven years. And we had a lot of presenters come through. And there was this one Buddhist presenter. His name is Michael Stone. Unfortunately died in the opioid crisis, but he was like, a very powerful Buddhist teacher in Toronto, and he wrote a book called the World Comes to you. And so I often, like, when I was starting something like this, I read this passage, which is like, it talks a lot about how we come up with new ideas or how we, like, pull ourselves out of what has been. What has been, basically. And he uses the metaphor of. Of meditation as, like, a practice of expanding your aperture, basically. Like. And that he sort of has this very blunt line in this. This little writing where he says, like, basically anything we're going through that we don't see a way out of is just a lack of imagination, which can sometimes come a bit hard. But it's. It's something I start with often in process like this. So maybe why don't we just, like, hold on that, like the expansion of aperture and just take like 30. 30 seconds of silence. That was our 30 seconds of silence.

00:08:01

James Redenbaugh: The music of children.

00:08:06

Peter Wrinch: Yeah.

00:08:08

James Redenbaugh: One of the meanings of iris, one of the metaphors that it is the aperture of the eye. Creates the aperture of the eye. Wonderful. I'd love for you two to get to know each other in a. In a wide aperture way before we get into particulars. Sticking with that metaphor. I was walking with a friend in the woods yesterday, and he is starting a course in horticulture. And I was taking pictures, and he was telling me about what he's learning. And I used the metaphor of the aperture, to reflect to him what I was hearing about the way that he's learning as he's just starting this new field. He. His apertures wide open. He's letting a light, a lot of light in. He's receiving a lot of things fast. He's focusing on these little things, and then most of the field is blurred, but he's able to get the outline and the big picture of things. And so my. My Prompt to you guys. Maybe you can start Peter, and just give us the wide aperture blurry picture of who you are in the world and what brings you here today.

00:09:47

Peter Wrinch: Yeah, totally. Thanks James. I, I super appreciate the like blurry and the like making sense of the lines as like sometimes you're close to them and sometimes they're far away. One of the things I've been like sort of just thinking about or remembering is like before. So I, I was like born here like in British Columbia and Vancouver, Richmond and I ended up going to school in Montreal and before I went to undergrad I, I went to an island here and just like by myself and was just thinking about like why I was going and I remember thinking, oh yeah, I want to go to undergrad to find people to start like a commune with. This was like my whole purpose of going to undergrad. Or at least this is like what I told myself, you know, 19 and I had this moment like a few years ago when I was the CEO of Hollyhock where I was like, oh my God, like that actually kind of happened like over, you know, it didn't happen the way I thought it would and it like. But it's like all of a sudden I'm like in this land based work with these people who have like a shared aspiration for like a better something, you know. And so, but like my path there was like you know, grad school and studying revolutions and then I like ended up 10 years in advocacy in Canada's poorest neighborhoods. And then, and a year ago I, I quit the Hollyhock job mostly because I was like kind of fried on the system of like non profits and Hollyhock and I kind of lost some faith in like the ability for the org to like transform itself. Not the like transformation that happened when people came there so much, but just the ability for the org to like govern in a good way. And so for the last year I've been working with like land based projects, but really, really picky about like who. And I like, it's not like I know all the signs, but I definitely know a few of the signs. And so I'm like, oh no, that seems like people are just fighting with each other. That seems dysfunctional or that's like a power grab. And so, and it's not to say like I have it totally right. And, and that's like a weird thing too. I've said this to James. I'm like on this entrepreneurial journey that like every Month. I think I figured it out. And then I'm like, oh, the. So that's, like, why I really appreciate the lines and, like, the blurriness is because. And I think in this process, too, like, there's things like, I'm like, oh, yeah, I think that. But then I'm like, oh, no, I'm not sure about that. Like, and so I'm kind of keen to get into some of that, like, understanding that, like, when I try to translate, like, my vision or whatever to the world, like, there will be some, like, walking like that. And then. Yeah. The last thing I'd say is, like, so I. I live on Bowen Island. I have two kids, one who you've heard and sitting over here. And I have this dog that I inherited down there. It's, like, kind of ridiculous pug that I inherited. It's always here snoring and. Yeah. So nice to meet you, Al.

00:15:22

James Redenbaugh: My best man. Yeah. Spencer Honeyman. Peter.

00:15:26

Peter Wrinch: No, no.

00:15:29

James Redenbaugh: He's in.

00:15:37

Peter Wrinch: Know what that is? Yeah, totally. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And Ellen, are you originally from California or somewhere else? Wow. There you go. Yeah, it's a good thing to have. For sure. Thank you to meet you.

00:18:45

James Redenbaugh: Peter. I'm curious about the difference between you and Uncommon Partners and who should we be? How should we be holding you?

00:19:08

Peter Wrinch: Great question. Yeah, no, it's such a great question. I. And it's like, you know, as I said, like, I've been on this journey and entrepreneurial, but also like, part of the reason I got here is like, I, I turned 50 this year. I was really aware of that when I was 25. I was really aware I was going to be 50 one day. And I was like, very sad. And then, anyways, so 50 was a thing for me, so I, I knew that I didn't want to work at Hollyhock anymore. It's the first time I've like, not been an employee my life. So it's like, it's also like, I think to your question, James, like, there's a lot of intersecting that's happening. I was on a call yesterday talking to someone else who's like a solopreneur and we're talking about how shift, like the mindset shift of like, oh, I have a personal bank account and now I have a business bank account and like, really separating those. So I think that this has been something a bit of a journey I'm on. So I think, to answer your question, I think that Uncommon Partners is mostly me right now. Like, it is a vehicle, like, I guess in a way I think about it as a vehicle for my, like, Dharma in the world. But I, I have, when I chose the name, I chose it fairly intentionally because one of the things I, I'm very aware of as I just passed like the one year anniversary of quitting Hollyhock, this can be a little lonely for me. Like, I, I think that I need partners, you know. And so like, even James, like, James and I worked together on a project, you know, for this indigenous group in Alabama. And like, just like working with someone else, seeing the work with someone else's lens matters to me. So I think that's where like, I remember when I first like, incorporated, someone was like, oh, just incorporate Peter Rynch llc. And I was like, no, I, no, I'm not doing that. Like, I, I wanted something bigger than me, you know, I'm not sure, like, it would survive me if I died, but I, I didn't want it to be me. Llc. I don't know if I answered your question.

00:22:04

James Redenbaugh: Definitely, yeah.

00:22:06

Peter Wrinch: Actually, there's one other thing I'll add. So when I first quit Hollyhock, I. I started this thing. I'm James. I might have told you this, but, like, I wrote a few blog posts, and they ended up being, like, almost like content marketing. I didn't really mean them to be, but when I was talking to friends about them, like, when they would see these blog posts, they're like, oh, that's so interesting. It, like, sounds like a version of you, but it's not exactly you. And I think that Uncommon Partners can be that. For me, like, it can be a way that isn't necessarily the way, like, I am with people all. All the time. Like, do you know what I'm saying? It's like a caricature of me in some ways. It can be, at least.

00:23:01

James Redenbaugh: Yeah. Yeah. And then the logo that you chose, currently, the Enzo Circle, I don't see it on your website, but I've seen it around. Yeah, tell me about that, where that came from.

00:23:23

Peter Wrinch: Yeah, totally. So I. I think, like, you know, I'm a Gen Xer, so I'm old. I think I feel like I'm older than you. You both, but, like, I'm a Gen Xer, and so it's like. I think that when I think about, like, Gen X and my like, is something was with me when I was younger, I, like, wanted to find these other ways, you know? And so really, my, like, it's like, really easily to articulate in my undergrad is like, it's half Buddhism and half Soviet revolution. And so it's like, one sense, I was looking for these, like, two alternatives, and I think so. I think that circle, first and foremost, like, comes to me through Buddhism, for sure. Like, the aesthetic, the. The circle, there's like a. And I spent a lot of time in Japan. There's a Japanese aesthetic to me that I very much like. Like, I'm very into simple lines, brush strokes, black and white, some reds possibly. So there's that. But then I think also I'm also really into the idea that, like, everything is already there. We just need to, like, round the circle. It's not like. It's not like there's some big new idea that hasn't been acknowledged. It's like, it's actually all there. We just need to, like, find its contours. So that. That's kind of why that.

00:25:17

James Redenbaugh: Wonderful. I also see the. The space that you're attempting to create. That's Bigger than yourself.

00:25:27

Peter Wrinch: Yeah.

00:25:28

James Redenbaugh: And that's the offering.

00:25:31

Peter Wrinch: Yeah.

00:25:33

James Redenbaugh: And that. I think it's the power of entrepreneurship, in essence. But a lot of people try to put a product in that space and say, here's the thing or here's the service. But I think I'm very similar to you in the sense that the product is the space itself and the possibility, and you can. You can bring different parts of yourself into that. You can bring your whole self into that, and you can bring others into that, and the value can multiply in that space where the. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

00:26:17

Peter Wrinch: Yeah. Yeah, James, I. I'll just speak to that. Like, I've really been thinking, like, I think, like, one of the things I'm like, this month, I got it. It's like, I'm. I've really been thinking a lot about, like, what the product is, and I think you're right. Like, the openness of the center is like. You know, when I'm working with, like, a retreat center leader, like, I. It's like I feel like I have this foundation I'm standing on, which is, like, vast. And I don't mean my. Like, it's just like, your foundations are vast, too. Right. Like, they're ancestral. They're like, every moment we have, like, every argument we lose and every argument we win, you know, it's like everything. And. And I feel like when I'm working with retreat center, like, they have that, too. It's not like, again, I think I'm often, like, a bit, like, struggling with the. Like, people are like, oh, you're the guy. You're the exact expert. And I'm like. Like, I'm just gonna, like, be like. I. I started to get really obsessed with the idea that the product was accompaniment. That was it. That's all. The product is, accompaniment. Now, I know that can't be all it is, I think, but. But it's not much more than that often.

00:27:44

James Redenbaugh: Beautiful. Awesome. Well, I. I have a million more questions I want to ask, or at least three. But I want to. To zoom out and look at the process together. That includes getting to know you deeper, getting to know the offering deeper, getting to figure out to. Together how best to position the offering and illustrate it. And we'll have several different ways we could get at it to accomplish this. Every project is different. We could do your astrology and the project's astrology and look at that, or throw tea leaves at the wall, or we can, you know, really leverage the power of presence and see what comes up together out of emptiness and follow threads, or we can lead through processes and workshops to systematically arrive at conclusions together or some combination of all three and other things. But if we look at the process as a whole, there's the vision and discovery and then there's structure and content and then designing of the website and the development of the website and the branding usually happens in the discovery and visioning or between there and the designing. And before we go further, do you have any questions about the overall arc of the process?

00:29:37

Peter Wrinch: I don't think so. I, I've been, you know, I appreciate everything you just said and I feel like I've in, you know, in 20 couple years of working, I've been through a few of these and so I, I really appreciated the way you just described the process. So. And yeah, no, I'm like, I'm. I'm in.

00:30:07

James Redenbaugh: That's, that's great to hear. So the first phase is vision and discovery. And the offering may be accompaniment for us as well in a very real way. And we want to keep our destination in mind. We're trying to arrive at. And so I just want to take a couple minutes first to talk about your sense of the practical needs of the website and the role that you want it to serve.

00:30:50

Peter Wrinch: Yeah, another great question and probably one I'm a little confused about. I think I have like, so in like orgs that I've been the ed of or like been part of. I often am in like the communication side. And so I've often been the person with a lot of learning and folly, like focusing on brand and like content and these types of things. And I think that. So I have, what I would say is I have that voice in my head or the, what I often say is I have those people in my life who are like, you know, brand content, like, clarity. And I also, James, I think, you know, I worked for a tech company for three years before I started Hollyhock. And so I was like very much working with political parties around the world, like on their, on all of these things, like how to drive community engagement and all of these things. And half of what I did, I know was bullshit. Like, not me. Like I had integrity and they had integrity, but I know that it didn't like, deliver what we all wanted it to deliver. And so I'm like very aware of that. And so I have these, this other voice in my head and these other people in my life who are like, you don't need a website at all. Like, just. Just keep being you. Like, word of mouth. Like, just keep doing it. And. And so I'm like, just confused in between those two things. To be totally frank, I think part of why I want to build a website is I want, like, a home for some of the things that I'm talking about and thinking about. And right now I don't really have a home. Like, I thought about. I thought about, like, starting a substack newsletter. Like, maybe that would just be fine, you know, and I could just like, write a newsletter to people every week or every month or whatever. But it. I. I think I want something more visual than that. Like, more artful than that almost. And so if I go to, like, a very tactical level, like, on some level, I want somewhere people can go when they're thinking of signing a deal with me and they feel confident, oh, this person's, like a real person. He's not like a bullshitter. You know, like, kind of like. And again, like, I'm not ever really in those situations because most people I signed deals with know who I am. But I think the first and foremost thing is like, oh, hey, I'm signing a 75k deal with Peter, board director. Here's his website. You can see that he's like, not. He's like a real person. This is real. Like, he's not going to disappear. So that. That's one piece of it, I think. A, like, lower piece. Although, like, I just don't quite know how to think about. This is like biz dev itself. Like, are there people Googling? Like, how do I fundraise for my retreat center? How do I engage indigenous people in my retreat center? And there's like, they don't find anything. So like, that sort of like, Legion.

00:34:38

James Redenbaugh: How do I tell my friend about.

00:34:40

Peter Wrinch: Yeah, yeah, but I'm not interested in, like, in, you know, lead generation in the sense of, like, I'm going to scrape LinkedIn and, like, find people I don't know. Like, and maybe I will be like, I don't know. I was talking to someone about this yesterday. It's like, I have a lot going on right now. Like, I don't. I'm not doing biz dev anymore. I don't. And my biz dev was literally, like, pinging people, you know, that I knew. So. But. But who knows? That could all fall apart next year. And it's like, I've. I've exhausted all the retreat centers I know, and now I'm. I need to do like SEO. I don't know, whatever the thing is these days. No, yeah, so. So really it's about a home. It's about a visual home and like a visual brand that is coherent and feels like, oh, I saw this website and I met that person. That feels very coherent. A place to share insights. A place for like a social proof or like where people like that. And then, and then I'd say a couple rungs down is like just having like some form of lead generation. And then I think like, one of the things I'm thinking about a little bit more is like, again, like talking to this person yesterday and she's like, many years ahead of me in this game, different client base, but she's like. And I've heard people talk about this again, not sure how excited I am about it, but like this concept of like passive income and evergreen content and like, you should sell things. And I'm like, okay, I don't know, but I don't want to like, totally rule it out either, you know?

00:36:33

James Redenbaugh: Mm.

00:36:40

Peter Wrinch: I don't know. But I can give you an example, Ellen, of like a thing I've thought about. James just like designed like a hundred page document for me that was like a business plan for very specific use case, incredibly specific use case for a retreat center. But what I realized, James, after, when I saw that beautiful document was like, this is a fucking evergreen business plan for a retreat center. If you strip out the, the. The specific use case and you just took out all the, everything about Al Hogi and Ego and Euphia, this becomes like a, a blueprint for a retreat center. The number of like billionaires that I meet that tell me they want to start a retreat center. It's like, because there's so many, like, it's crazy. Everyone was like, oh, you know, trump the world. It's crazy. I'm gonna start a retreat center. But they don't know what they're doing. So it's like there's some product there, I think. And even if it's for free, like, even if it's. I don't know. But like, that's what I mean. Ellen. Exactly, exactly. And it was funny. So this Woman I was talking to again, like, I wouldn't use her as, like, a model for me because, well, a lot of different reasons, but she was like. She was like, you need to. It's just, like, kind of. I was just, like, thinking about it. She's like, you're like the guy, and you just need to, like, have a book and, like, your passive income and all the things. And I was like, oh, I like. I like the word passive. I like income. Like, I could do those things. And, like, she's like, the coaching and, like, the. The clients, that's kind of just the top layer. I was like, okay. So anyways, the point is, I just don't want totally rule that out. Yeah, thanks.

00:38:47

James Redenbaugh: I've never heard Evergreen product and Billionaire used in the same.

00:38:55

Peter Wrinch: Totally. But it's crazy, man. Like, the number of people I talk to that are like, hey, I really want to start a retreat center. But they don't, like, because that business plan, like, as. As James knows, I thought it was going to be 40 pages, ended up being 100. It was. And part of that was because I just really, like, I really want these people to succeed. And so I started going, like, way too deep, obviously, about everything. But, like, I was like, man, if I had this, like, I used to dream about this at Hollyhock, I was like, can we just, like, clear this whole thing away and start over? And that's pretty much what we wrote in that. What I wrote in that thing. So this is what it would look like if you just started over without any of the like or crazy making.

00:39:48

James Redenbaugh: Awesome. Great. So I think home is an awesome metaphor to roll with here. A home for the work. A home base for people to find you a place that signals to others a bit about who you are and what you're doing and that you're really connected to other people who have nice things to say about you. And I imagine also a place to transmit feeling or frequency that the. The kind of people you're meant to serve will resonate with.

00:40:36

Peter Wrinch: Totally. Totally.

00:40:40

James Redenbaugh: I know you're not here to help everyone, and you have your criteria. I definitely believe in the reality of resonance. If we can attune to the frequencies that you're operating on, we can attune that website to it. And the folks that are really meant to work with you should feel that too. And it can also act as a kind of acoustic instrument, not only for external biz dev, but also your internal biz dev of thinking about and structuring what you're doing. One of the things I love most about what we get to do is watching our clients go from not having a website to having a website before they even share with anybody. There's a kind of a psychological and strategic benefit of just being able to see your entity in digital form and interact with it and then envision the ways that it can grow. And it also becomes easier to bring others into that, even if they already know you and trust you and want to work with you. And you don't need to sell them on anything. Just having a thing that's yours that can set the tone. It's not, you know, a LinkedIn post or an email, you know, not constrained by any other UI to your thing. It creates a, an energetic space where more is possible. Yeah, yeah. And I know you appreciate that because, like, you wanted to take so much care into this. This document, cared about the design of it, not only the strategy that you put into it, because the experience that they have when they're holding it in their hands is really important.

00:42:48

Peter Wrinch: Exactly.

00:42:54

James Redenbaugh: Ellen, I'm curious what questions might be present for you.

00:44:22

Peter Wrinch: Yeah, it's a great question. On. And, and, you know, like, I, you know, I may have been Using hyperbole. But I. I can just share one thing with you. So for 10 years, I worked in what's called here, the downtown east side. It's like the Tenderloin or downtown la. Actually, Tenderloin is a perfect.

00:44:49

James Redenbaugh: Analogy.

00:44:50

Peter Wrinch: And I was in this, like, this nonprofit, and were so. We were so convinced. We were like the, like, it was just like, you know, were doing it and we're suing the police and suing the government. And went to the Supreme Court of Canada twice and had, like, two Supreme Court victories. And then the government just, like, changed all the laws and made it worse. And I remember thinking, years after, I was like, you know, like, all those victories, we had, like, quote, unquote victories. Like, the biggest victory was that were, like, in the Supreme Court with, like, indigenous. Indigenous women. That was the biggest victory. It was just like were with them, you know, like, because. And I think that, like, about that project in Alabama, too, right? It's like I'm talking to Marcus, the principal there, and I was talking about Trump, and he was just like. He was just kind of like. Like, he wasn't dismissive, but he wasn't, like, worked up. Like, I was like. He was just like, yeah, man. Like, we've been dealing with that for 500 years. Like. And so all that to say is like, the point that's, like, really important to me is not the biz data, as I was saying. I mean, although, like, you know, I need my business to succeed, but it's like, what is the tone? What is the. The space like? Like that. So that, to me is so important. Like, what is the. The feeling? You know, what's the coherence? Like, that's a word I've been using a lot with retreat centers is like, a lot of retreat centers operate in this space where they say one thing to the world, but their internal structure is really up. The hollyhock was the same. And so it's like, how do you build coherence? And. And, like, on that side of my brain where, like, those people are like, you don't need a website. It's like, what those people actually say is just keep doing. You just keep being you, like, all the time. That's what's going to bring abundance to your business. Not like you cranking LinkedIn. Not that I ever need that reminder. I don't crank LinkedIn, but it's like. And I think that is what feels really important to me. And that's, like, why I want to work with you. You both is. Because it's like. I know James, you understand that. Like, I very much know you understand that if I wanted, you know, like a. Yeah. If I wanted like a lead gen website, I would have done something different. Right? Yeah. So I can't even remember what your question was, Ellen, but it was, how. Yeah. I think there's one other thing I would add. One of the things that's been like kind of consistent throughout. Well, like really throughout my life. But I, I will say, like from time of like undergrad to current is so I've always had like this interest in visual language. So my master's thesis was about Soviet propaganda posters and how they convinced a non literate population to move towards whatever revolution. And I think that's where I've always gravitated to in the orgs that I've been part of is how do you engage people? And so I think that like. But one of the things like I've struggled with in nonprofit and advocacy work is like the sort of like. And one thing I think, like I learned in from corporate folks is like a, A desire for like beauty and like to better. I think. Like I, I remember years ago I wrote this blog post about how like not for profits, like will sometimes trade on the fact that they're not for profit. Like they'll be like, oh well, we can be shitty because we're not for profit. And I just am so. That is like so abhorrent to me. And I like. So I have this, like, I have this strain of like iconoclast. Like I get quite like, I can get a bit edgy in rooms If I feel like people are like underselling their thing and so you know, I was just in a call with Reiko James and he was, were just talking about work we did together and he's like, yeah man, like you really pushed us to double what were asking for from the funder. And I was like, yeah. And that to me is part of a non profit sickness too. Right. It's like I'm not like, I'm kind of like this and like whatever I can get scraps and I just think like no, like they're lucky to work with you. Like and just like go hard in that way. Yeah.

00:50:51

James Redenbaugh: Awesome. Wonderful. Well, I can't wait to get deeper into all this. This is a fantastic glimpse into what's happening over there. And our next meeting should be what we call a vision session where we want to take at least 90 minutes, at least up to two hours to dive in and explore different things, see what processes Ellen wants to lead in that. Start to look at inspiration together and see what palettes will pull from. I'll confer with Ellen to decide if we want to send a questionnaire beforehand. Sometimes I do that, sometimes I don't. We can, we can decide what will best on, on that front and yeah. And the next two meetings, next one or two meetings. We'll see how much we get done in that vision session. We might schedule a follow up after that and then we'll start the mood boarding. Creating a visual strategy. Start creating a brand, see how that comes together. Building on what you already have, what can already work for you and then create a solid brief for the next phases which will also include a high level site map. So we'll get more specific on you know, what are we actually going to build in this phase. I'm sure we'll have ideas of future stuff come up along the way. We can put those in a future bucket but we'll see what wants to be included in this V1. I'd love to find a great way to share what you want to share. Kind of create your own medium. Not just think of it as a blog, but think of it as a, an opportunity to create your own form for how you want to put your words ideas out there. So that'll be exciting. And, and then when we get into to content, Ellen has a lot more experience in that domain than me. I love facilitating content processes and I think that we'll still want to have you be generating things, you know, not just let us, you know, word it for you. But Alan is really incredible at pulling some awesome content out of people and articulating things really beautifully in aligned matters. And then, you know, if we nail those first two phases, then the design and the development should be really easy. We should really know what we're doing and be able to see it together. And then it's just a matter of putting it together. And so the hope is for all that to take place over the next two months. About. I have a wedding in two weeks and, you know, quite busy with that. But Alan's going to be playing a big role in. In the first three phases. Really. And so, yeah, we can. We can schedule right now together or follow up via email to schedule that next session. Whatever works best for you.

00:55:06

Peter Wrinch: Yeah, tell me when you're thinking. I. Yeah, why don't we try to schedule now?

00:55:14

James Redenbaugh: Cool. I'm pretty flexible. I. Most of my time is just wedding prep these days, so this is a whole lot on the calendar.

00:55:26

Peter Wrinch: I'm looking at like next week. And so I have time on Monday afternoon after like 2, Wednesday afternoon after 3 and Friday pretty free all day.

00:55:45

James Redenbaugh: What works for you in that? I could do any of the times.

00:56:00

Peter Wrinch: Yeah, after 2. 15, actually. So 2:30. I could also do Friday. I have something from 9 to 10 and then I'm pretty free after that. So Tuesday I don't have anything. But Wednesday I'm free after three. Yeah, okay.

00:56:41

James Redenbaugh: I can do any of.

00:56:45

Peter Wrinch: Yeah. I could also do Tuesday at 10 if that works. Yeah, I could do that.

00:57:06

James Redenbaugh: Great. That's perfect for me.

00:57:12

Peter Wrinch: Okay. I'm sorry, what time does your photo session end?

00:57:26

Ellen Keith Shaw The session's at 9: 30, so I could do 11 on Tuesday.

00:57:32

Peter Wrinch: That will work. Yeah. It's not like. It's not squishing you.

00:57:37

Ellen Keith Shaw No, because it's 9: 30 means I'd have to be done.

00:57:51

Ellen Keith Shaw Can we say 11: 30 just to make sure I have no space?

00:57:53

Peter Wrinch: Yeah. My next thing at that day is at 2, so. Yeah.

00:58:02

James Redenbaugh: Great.

00:58:03

Peter Wrinch: 11:30.

00:58:06

James Redenbaugh: I'll send you guys an invite to that. And I'm scheduling two hours, but we may only need 90 minutes there. We'll see how it flows and I will confer before then. And Peter, any. Any questions or ideas that come up for you at any time, feel free to shoot them to us. I'll make sure you have Ellen's email as well and I'll send you an invoice for the. The deposit.

00:58:40

Peter Wrinch: Yeah.

00:58:41

James Redenbaugh: And yeah, I'm excited. Any final questions before we hop off here?

00:58:50

Peter Wrinch: No, I think it's good. Yeah, nice to meet you too. Yeah, for sure. Great to see you both. All right, take care. Bye.

00:59:01

James Redenbaugh: Take care.

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