00:00:05

Rob Sinclair: So so that I think both some creative play and dreaming and noticing. you know, updated by our some of our shared experiences, that Olyhawk, and what we've been doing since, and what we can see now coming next, and and to use that as a next iteration on the design work that was done in the in the spring. To iterate forward. but also to like, get get into some. So like the creative, dreamy place, but also then into some. Okay, so what are the. you know, next couple of things? So that come September. there's a there's a next something.

00:00:57

Lauren Tenney: With you. Can you hear me?

00:00:59

Rob Sinclair: Can hear you. You want to add any color, perspective.

00:01:06

Lauren Tenney: Well, I'm noticing that I have. I have been in a fantasy of more control than is realized at this point. In terms of like the realization and the articulation of the thing will be here. And actually, that's not. That's not really what's happened. But but when you say what you said, Rob, I am like kind of there is a would be really generative to be in this space with you, James, of like we left visual work and creative work kind of in this hanging state, because we knew something else was needed. And now we've kind of had these iterations and space and and experiences. And what you just said is helpful to me, Rob, like, okay, so so what do we see now for what the actual work is of our web presence, because maybe it's really simple. Maybe I don't know. I'm just sort of in the question of what it needs to be and that James, to acknowledge as well that Rob and I are articulating and and working several streams of the next phase in in parallel right now. So the getting of a body together, and the considering of a board, and the articulating of a vision and mission and purpose and bylaws are all supportive of continued clarity, of how we talk about what we're up to. But I don't want to get stuck trying to get that more perfect before we do anything. While recognizing, we need to keep being more clear, so that you don't have to draw things out of us every time we meet. So.

00:02:51

James Redenbaugh: Cool.

00:02:56

Rob Sinclair: What's the 1st principles 1st values phrase so like eternal perennialism, or something like that, like the what is the what is the thing? How can it be articulated? But how do we leave room for it to be iterative, and ever knew in its expressions? How do we depict that? How do we articulate that.

00:03:16

Lauren Tenney: And and like good enough for now. With there being something really meaningful and important about the how it's shown. Like, I just. yeah, I'm I'm I wonder, James, and wouldn't expect you to have put any con like contemplation time on our particular web next iteration. But like what even would come up if we did that together and asked you that question now like, what? What do you see differently now? Because of our time, for example, at Hollyhock. When you think about our web presence.

00:03:57

Rob Sinclair: And maybe I can name quickly before you jump in. James, like my sense, is the. There was some really great collaborative, visioning and creative work that got done. And then, in our attempt to get to a draft one, it felt like we branched somewhere where we lost some of the really essential. like, somehow we ended up down a track where we said, Okay, hold on this, isn't it? And let's come back. And so the coming back, I find myself hoping we go back to more of the like source code that we got to together rather than let's come back to the end of that branch we left. So I wanted to. I wanted to include that.

00:04:35

James Redenbaugh: Yeah, well, I feel like, I feel more connected to the source code, after hollyhock and and reflecting upon it with y'all and.

00:05:01

Lauren Tenney: I think less is more.

00:05:07

James Redenbaugh: In many ways. and I really don't know.

00:05:21

Lauren Tenney: Practically, but needs to.

00:05:27

James Redenbaugh: Look and feel But there's things we can do to figure that out.

00:05:49

Rob Sinclair: Right. It's coming up for you, Lauren.

00:05:58

Lauren Tenney: But what's coming up is what like. We could pour creative love into visualizations of the spirit of the thing just because it's fucking, satisfying to do that. And I'm artistic. So I love to do that. James is artistic and Rob, you appreciate. I mean, it's like we could do that. But then I'm picking up like, when I go to a civilization Research Institute website, it's very minimalist. There's like nothing there. It's like, this is what we do, you can go read it here like, it's very. And I'm just sort of wondering. Well, what's the actual functional like? If our primary interface for our existence is not the web it's relational. We just like need a screen somewhere. That's like, Hello, existence. But it doesn't seem to be. I asked. The question of like, does it need to do much like? What does it need to do.

00:07:00

James Redenbaugh: Yeah. I almost want it to be like a typewriter page with with the doodle and the and a coffee stain on it? Yeah. When I start to think about.

00:07:18

Rob Sinclair: Hmm.

00:07:19

James Redenbaugh: Style and brand. It just feels so secondary to the thing itself, because I think about the experience at Hollyhog. What would what would the brochure for that look like it wouldn't be like a glossy spread man done photos and graphics and images and and bullet points. But I I don't know what it would be, except like maybe a message in a bottle that washes up on shore, or how scribbled on an on a bar napkin or I don't know something beautiful. Not like kind of intent, too intentionally understated. But It's it. It's more of a road sign than than a billboard. And like, if you know, you know. but at the same time I want it to resonate with the vibration of the offering.

00:09:01

Rob Sinclair: That's the challenge is like, how does it still, as a fractal of the thing, be congruent in its representation? That won't.

00:09:09

James Redenbaugh: Yeah.

00:09:10

Rob Sinclair: Yeah.

00:09:14

Lauren Tenney: Where I go with that is, it's not static. But then I'm like, either that's expensive or it's maintenance.

00:09:27

James Redenbaugh: Well, what does not static mean to you.

00:09:30

Lauren Tenney: Like. If the web space was just a little peephole space into the energy and activity of trifora, then there would be poem image, you know, piece of writing pointing. It would be like it would be a road sign, but it would be dynamic. It'd be alive. It would be pointing to things. Either that functionality sounds right away expensive to build, or it requires continual feeding of stuff that's dynamically being presented. And maybe the build isn't expensive, but the maintenance is like I don't. I don't. I don't know. That's sort of a black and white thing, but that's what comes up. And maybe Rob and I can do that. And it's actually not that expensive but requiring you to help us maintain the living vibe of a web space for what we're doing seems ridiculous. you know.

00:10:33

Rob Sinclair: Yeah, no, this is good, I mean. So I have a couple of things happening like, I'm loving the metaphor and and how they're informing like message in a bottle road sign, bar, napkin sketch like there. It feels like there's stuff we can use there which sent me Lauren to like the napkin. It's like, what is the updated version of that doodle that is just like a here. This is some of what we're what we're playing with. And it's not self explanatory. It's just like a it's a kind of call. But at 1 point we had talked about the like. There's the the 3 domains that we care about in human formation, and there's a kind of depiction of that, and the flywheel of that with, with, you know. without a better name in my head right now.

00:11:16

James Redenbaugh: Click into like, okay, so what are we doing in service of those things? And there's the 3 that.

00:11:22

Rob Sinclair: We've also recently named Lauren, in terms of like the network weaving the the program offering the you know what I'm talking about.

00:11:32

Lauren Tenney: Yep.

00:11:34

Rob Sinclair: And that each of those can have little like. Can they have little branches? And we could literally have like, here's a poem that just came through about that. We're about to have this little convening that we're bringing together of practitioners where you know. Here's your invitation, or like a little fractal of your invitation that's going to go out about Francis Weller and the like. That's what we're doing, and it can exist in a kind of living way. And James, maybe there's a way that you can just say, Okay, yeah, these are places you can just add little branches or over the course of you know, maybe it's a depiction of 12 months of activity. And we're just constantly kind of updating a little bit of a timeline of Oh, yeah. Now, we're also doing this and the next, we're doing this. And we just did this and that can all live there in little little bites. But that gives a sense of the whole, of not just who are we, or who? What do we aspirationally commit to doing? But this is what we're living.

00:12:28

Lauren Tenney: So the question, if I'm if I immediately want to try to translate that into what I think James has to think about, that's what happens for me, James is like, so is it a question, of what kind of pages is it a question of what functionality like? I kind of go to the how quite quickly. Because yes, like that we would write pieces and want to make them visible is a something that we'll be up to that. We would record conversations of some nature and share those. Yeah, we'll be doing that in various moments for different. I don't know but it's like that if this is a little like, you can look in the window and see the activity, then how to represent that.

00:13:20

Rob Sinclair: Well, like, yeah, no, I I appreciate the challenge. When I see something like, you know, James, you had asked for for us to poke around a little bit on that page you shared of your new way of creating together, which I think is just really wonderful in so many ways. But if I scroll down to just below the possibilities where you have the hexagons of client work, and you have the like 3 orbital kind of looping patterns. I imagine something like that. There's a single depiction of a kind of blooming, spiraling, weaving process that someone could then. you know, click on any one of and be like, oh, what are you doing in the network weaving, you know, ecosystem weaving space right now, or what are you doing in the schooling, you know, area right now, and there's a way they could just transparently have a view into that. But that what's depicted is the interplay of those things and their inseparability, and this may not be helpful, so feel free to steer.

00:14:34

James Redenbaugh: Yeah, I think that. There's you guys know what a content management system is, and post type. So web flow lets us easily create our own post types. And then it's relatively easy to customize how we manage and view those on the front end. And it sounds like what we're talking about is creating a way to dynamically curate and and then publish different kinds of artifacts that can be categorized in different ways and shown to the user in some simple but interesting way that communicates the aliveness. the breadth and depth of what's happening here. And that can be managed via air table, like we did with the hollyhog page. So when you create a new post, or poem, or image or event, each of those could be a unique post type. You can just add them into air table, which is pretty easy. And then on the front end we could make it so they display together. So here's an image. Here's a poem. Here's a an event invitation. And then I would. you know, instead of just having them in a grid. It's like, Oh, there's an image, there's a poem, there's whatever it could be. It could be grid based, or it could be something more. Free form, how they, how they come into being, even if it's just like a like a long scroll in one domain, zoom into one of the 3. Here's a long scroll stuff. So you can go back. Okay, there's a poem. There's something. There's an image. There's this. and if it's an air table. You can empower different people to share. It doesn't only have to be, you guys. It could be anyone. You could even connect it to a form so like anybody in the Hollyhock crew or future proves, can we fill out a form if there's not a dynamic people from the custom back end virtual space that we have into the front end triflora where stuff gets portaled through there before that exists there can be a simple form where I wanna I want to share a blurb about my experience, or I want to share a gallery of pictures that I took in hollyhock. Or I want to share this thing that I'm doing in this domain that's related to Trifora in this way. And you guys can think about how you want to be the the the curators of that. What's what's relevant to stream? And what's Gonna end up feeling like noise? cause you don't. You don't want it to be like, Oh, check out our blog on the best ways to market your next paradigm organization, you know. Or here's all this AI generated content that that we have, or. you know, scroll through our Instagram stories, whatever you want it to feel. In intentional and pointing people towards the real thing which isn't the the website. It's like. here are some things that have floated down the river that tell you about the party that we're having upstream.

00:19:28

Lauren Tenney: And so I think what I hear you saying is, the the trickiness or the investment in terms of architecture is in the look and feel port stuff from basically airtable.

00:19:46

James Redenbaugh: I think that the trickiness yes, but I think the real, I mean the difficult aspect that I'm thinking about right now is how to decide what goes into that. And I think that's largely on you guys. It's relatively, I mean, it's a known challenge in terms of how much effort it'll take to and set that up and get it working. And then style wise. I think that less is gonna be more like I'm not seeing things in in discrete boxes. I almost want it like, if somebody shares a post I want to see, or or some words like those words show up on a white canvas. Maybe the background has a texture. And even if it, if an image is shared, maybe those those images. you know. Maybe the image accompanies some words, and the and the graphic style we choose for the image has a has a white background, and then we put a bleed effect on it, and so the image doesn't look like it's in a box. It's just like a flower sitting on the page, or a rock, or an eagle from Rob's cup. you know, without without borders. That kind of thing where on the on the back end, it's a complex Cms with lots of different types, but on the front end it looks like one stream of different parts. and you know, maybe a link to to more. But instead of like a big red button more. It's just like underline, and you hover over it, and some dots pop out, or whatever. And then it opens up. And it's like, okay, there's more of those words or more of this image, or something like that.

00:22:11

Lauren Tenney: Yeah, yeah. The the sense I'm getting as I listen is that there's 1 function that it needs to serve which is minimal, useful about us. and that that's important. But it's not really the center. It's like a little okay. And then there's a get a feel that's the body of it is like, get a feel, and then we can decide what artifacts or glimpses belong there, and the the design investment is in the interface that represents that out and kind of the smoothness that it, like the aesthetic unity of that, and how it functions. And then we could be making all of our inputs into the stream from airtable. But we gotta get that. How it shows up. That's you. That's that's what we're yeah. Rob, what are you training on.

00:23:15

Rob Sinclair: Yeah, what I'm cooking on is like a I'm trying to. I'm imagining a page like I'm kind of borrowing what I imagine might be some of the back end functionality you're describing. And I'm I'm looking at your page that you've got about Iris, James. And I'm I'm going okay. So what if there was? Some simple depiction of the 3 domains of human formation and the 3 activities that Triforea is up to? There's a little bit of a like. What? Why picture depicted on that same page on a long scroll? There's then a kind of a section that's dedicated with some simple representation to each of those that could be linked to an air table so like one of those could be like, oh, so what are we doing in the convening, you know, realm, and it can be just like a little. you know, a set of images that each time we add one it adds to the the tile table of that, you know, and they're just depicted as tiles. And you can click on one of those. And it's a post that says like, oh, yeah, we brought some people together at Hollyhock, and this is what we were doing. Or. you know, we're having a conversation about what practitioners are being called into like, I'm thinking of Roshi's thing, or you know James is hosting a conversation about, and whether we name people or not, but that the long flow of a single page has a place where those posts get populated and organized by section in ways that are not overly elaborate. But they're still creative, and there's still a congruent expression, so that when someone arrives they can get a sense of like, oh, this is the kind of identity of trifora. And then this is the living depiction of what are they up to in each of those domains, or in each of those living activities or aspects of who they are that makes sense. That's what I'm like imagining or playing with. Could there be? Would that work? Does that achieve what we're hoping? 4.

00:25:22

James Redenbaugh: Yeah, I think so. And I love that don with these little artifacts, or glimpses or sharings. I'd love to see the people behind them. So if I'm doing something and I'm sharing it there. A little picture of me. you know, from James, and like maybe it doesn't even need my last name, but it doesn't need to link to some profile or something, and it doesn't need to. I don't need to be on the about Page. but just to see. Get a little taste like there's people behind this. It's more than, and you know a a robin. Lauren's Vlog. It's like, there's there's life here. There's evidence. There's fingerprints of of a collective.

00:26:23

Rob Sinclair: Yeah, when I think of the essence of what we're trying to depict, it's like, okay, so it's a live. it's relational, like, there are humans, and that the human relationships are part of what our blooming things into the world. What else it's commitment to beauty is another one that feels like. It's a both direct and indirect thing. We're trying to depict our commitment to beauty.

00:26:59

James Redenbaugh: Something about just enough.

00:27:02

Rob Sinclair: Yeah.

00:27:05

James Redenbaugh: Like not. I don't like the word minimal

00:27:11

Rob Sinclair: That's barely enough.

00:27:14

James Redenbaugh: And it's not necessarily humble, because there's a a confidence required to to do what we're talking about. But it's nothing that's not needed nothing too much, and really elegant.

00:27:40

Rob Sinclair: Yeah, like, essential feels better than minimal. For example.

00:27:43

James Redenbaugh: Cancel is a good word. Yeah. Open like white space, but also like it's an invitation into it.

00:28:06

Lauren Tenney: Yeah. Invitational. Yeah.

00:28:14

Rob Sinclair: Yeah, like, if each of those spaces had a like. what's yours, you know, it's almost like an invitation to engage. And it's not that it would populate directly there, necessarily. But there could be a form that's like, Oh, are you doing something in this realm? And we want to hear from you. We want to hear what you're up to. We want to know, and please send it. Please get in touch, please. You know there's there's a way that that could feel very. not just seem to be invitational, but actually is.

00:28:45

Lauren Tenney: And like on our we page for the gathering. I don't know how many people listened to our audios, but they were short for a reason. and there's something about like without kowtowing to the, you know, narrowing of attention spans via advertising driven media like there's a make it make it available like, make some contact available like hearing some voices. You're not. You're not experiencing a polished something like, listen to the episode or read the essay. Maybe there will be essays. But there's a kind of like, take a look at the craft that's happening while it's happening like, here's some snippets of the voices. There's a kind of in process quality.

00:29:36

James Redenbaugh: Do it.

00:29:38

Lauren Tenney: That, I think, communicates accessibility because it isn't leading with a presentation of finishedness and completion. It's like process at work. And then the question to invite makes a lot of sense, because there's a sense of it being tactile.

00:29:59

Rob Sinclair: Yeah, I feel you kind of adding to the the alive when I think about like, how does it depict and represent accurately the aliveness. There's something raw, there's something organic. There's something unfinished. There's something like. has that kind of quality in process.

00:30:24

Lauren Tenney: I, for example, James, I was just looking at all your beautiful work on the website there for clients. and I'm like, like, totally I get it like I went to a lolly, and I'm like, Oh, that's clearly a placeholder. They're clearly doing more work on that right now, but like There is a way that, like web spaces are like, there's like a kind of static. Even when they're good. They're static like they're polished. They're definitive. They're conclusive. And like. there's a little bit we can do that's like that. We can be clarified about our intention and our activities. And like. But there's also a lot that's mobile that's like it's the moving, living and and liminality is becoming. you know, while it's overplayed. It's also underplayed or misunderstood. And I was just reading a really beautiful paper this morning about that, from A, from like a more academic perspective, and it was helping me see that one of the one of the qualities that was true about our hollyhock. Time was intentional liminality when liminality is understood as a place where I can stand to see how I'm thinking and being in the world. It's like an island of coherence, culturally. And a group can do that. And so these are some of the the intentions that are sentiments that are aesthetic qualities. At the same time. you know.

00:31:55

James Redenbaugh: Yeah.

00:32:01

Lauren Tenney: Not being precious.

00:32:04

James Redenbaugh: Yeah, I think this is a good precedent to a lolly this is a site we've done recently for endemic and it's similar to a lot of stuff we do for them where it's just, it's very minimal. It's always text on the page with some simple colors. But then in the, in the details it feels it kind of comes alive. And you can engage it and explore it. They're, you know. They're very into their words. I would love to see a little bit more images. But I just love the the white space that's here. And yeah, what.

00:33:04

Lauren Tenney: What is this?

00:33:06

James Redenbaugh: They're starting a divinity school. And basically.

00:33:11

Lauren Tenney: This is Bonita Roy.

00:33:13

James Redenbaugh: Yeah. But it feels to me kind of like, Maybe it's because we work off a lot of notion, docs, but it feels like one step up from a notion, Doc, like they could add to this at any minute, and they do, and it's like evolves every all the time. And when I come back next week I'll you know I'll likely see something. No, it's not trying to be, that's you know. Here's what we do. It's like. Here's some words to get in to start developing a sense of what we do.

00:33:52

Lauren Tenney: So this may be just me. But just like when I encounter that, and I've messed around on their other website, or whatever iteration preceded that. What one of the things one of the relational qualities that I notice is it's exerting a demand on my attention to take in a shitload of words.

00:34:15

James Redenbaugh: Which.

00:34:15

Lauren Tenney: Tells me something about what it is. It's a transmission in and of itself. And so even if that's lost on a lot of people. That would be how I would articulate like, what's the transmission of what is here like an image, a drawing, a poem. an elegant choice of what those are, and a minimal amount of text like is more to me relationally receptive to the listeners, energy and attention. And it doesn't do this to me, you know, even if it's clean, it's still this to me, with its brain, you know. Yeah.

00:34:54

James Redenbaugh: For them. I think it works for them, and who they're trying to attract and who they're not. And for you guys, are you at all familiar with Marshall Mcluhan's work and his like acoustic and visual space, or hot and cool mediums?

00:35:11

Lauren Tenney: No, not those elements, no.

00:35:13

James Redenbaugh: You would study media and mediums and talk about the the effects of media on consciousness and culture, and how like a newspaper creates a different impact and effect in society and in a person, then a book. then a magazine, then a radio show than a television. And it's it's all about that of like, how much. what it requires of you to engage in. And some media come at you passively. You're just consuming it, and it's there, and other media requires you to step into it. And also some media is very clear and tangible and visual. like a map like there's a 1 to one relationship of the of the symbols and the reality of trying to describe. And other medias are more acoustic where it's immersive, where it's coming at you at all angles, and you shift a position and your view. And you're then having a different experience. And I think that what what would serve you guys best is something in the middle of all of that where it doesn't require a ton of energy from the user to like, understand what you guys are offering. But it's not a simple thing that's just put at them. It's not a a movie trailer. And you're like, Yeah, I want that there is some engagement required, some interaction required to participate with them the material in order to understand it. But it's not. And such a load that it feels like you're you're taking a course to start to Grok, what you're doing, and I think, combining images and pithy text combining kind of poetry and pros, combining like literal empty space and nonlinear elements and and the right words, can start to give folks you know, are are the ingredients needed to create the experience. That will give that may give folks a taste of what's happening here and invite them further. and also seeing people like one thing I don't like about endemic site, although I get why they they do. It is there's no people on it. There's no pictures, or very, very few. Once in a while we see some of the people behind it. But I'd love to see more people. I'd love to see people on your site. but also not in a way where it's like. Here's picture like, here's a big picture of us all together, even though we have a lot of those now. And I wanna find some good ways to do that. I think some of the pictures that we have from above could be really key actually us in a circle. And things things like that. Yeah. And also, maybe the the diagram of the 3 is going to be really essential, and I might be thinking more long term future iterations now, but other diagrams and visual ideas to accompany the written word, because the word is just one language. and what we're really getting at. What became so evident when we're together is that the words are only part of it, and there's some ideas that we were grappling with that. We can't even speak to.

00:39:17

Lauren Tenney: Yep.

00:39:20

Rob Sinclair: Yeah.

00:39:22

Lauren Tenney: Yeah, like an example would be. let's say there's a space where we're honoring a convening that's happened and acknowledging the date and time of another convening. And the way that we're honoring the one that has happened is that there's an image of from above. There's a view of a place, and there's 3 different audio voice buttons, and if you press one you're going to hear Roshi saying what it was for me was this, and if you press another one. You're going to hear James saying, I came away with this contemplation, and like that's it. It doesn't need to have more. It's like a tiny little like, Oh, huh! And then, you know, there's an invitation to kind of get in relationship with us to learn more about what we're doing and see whether this is something that speaks to you so like it's it's it's sorry. Go ahead, Rob.

00:40:19

Rob Sinclair: I'm sorry to interrupt. This is so good. I got a duck out to say bye to Jay, I'm gonna come right back. I'm glad we're recording. So thank you.

00:40:27

James Redenbaugh: Hi, Jay!

00:40:28

Rob Sinclair: Gotcha.

00:40:29

Lauren Tenney: Hi, Jay!

00:40:31

James Redenbaugh: It's okay. Awesome.

00:40:36

Rob Sinclair: Yeah, a lot of good stuff here.

00:40:39

Lauren Tenney: I really am appreciating the way you're putting things into words. I feel like you're getting. You're getting the harder to get parts and saying things that point to it for me really. Well.

00:40:51

James Redenbaugh: Yeah, right. Yeah, something's coming through. I'm just listening and saying the words that come up.

00:41:04

Lauren Tenney: Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I can see us like deciding to produce a series of written pieces because we're exploring a certain notion. Or we're in conversation with a set of ideas, and and that could be Rob and me. It could be folks from our collective wanting to. you know. Engage. There's 3 other people who want to do writing. I don't know, and it doesn't have to. But like where there's a voice like maybe there is a. I foresee there being value in us, sometimes putting things in writing, sometimes doing things in other media forms, and that mixture that you're describing being part of its accessibility. No.

00:41:58

James Redenbaugh: Thank you. Yeah, I am. I'd love to get Jessica creating some drawings and or to use some of the stuff she created. On a retreat. I think that does kind of visuals can really go a long way. Also, side note. I've never seen a group photo with this many people where each person is so authentically happy. So everybody is just joy in here. I love this so much.

00:42:59

Rob Sinclair: Yeah.

00:43:03

James Redenbaugh: And I love the messiness of our stuff and our blankets. Just kind of.

00:43:09

Lauren Tenney: Going around.

00:43:11

Rob Sinclair: And it's like it's almost a heart space in the middle.

00:43:17

James Redenbaugh: Yeah. My camera died.

00:43:29

Rob Sinclair: Hmm.

00:43:32

James Redenbaugh: My camera makes such a good webcam. But for some reason. even though it's plugged into my computer. it doesn't charge while I use it as a webcam. They're gonna swap out the batteries.

00:43:46

Lauren Tenney: James, I'm just thinking as we sit here like there's a there's a Rob and I are in constant conversation. In the space, and with and with the sensibilities that gave rise that give that give rise to trifora. And so, being able to share some of the snippets of that space is one of the ways. I think this is alive, like what I just read on liminality this morning. If if our space existed and I could go to airtable and be like and like this, this contemplation shows up because that's what's happening here. You know, there's there's that kind of aliveness of how we can share the dialogical sense, making space that we're in.

00:44:42

James Redenbaugh: Generosity, like as a as a transparency and a vulnerability, but also as an invitation to be in it with us. Yeah.

00:44:54

Lauren Tenney: It just sounds to me like making that look good is gonna be hard. How does this work? So it's not like a band of this, and a band of this, and a band of like. I don't know how to how to right brainify the web page like.

00:45:13

James Redenbaugh: No me, neither.

00:45:21

Rob Sinclair: Doesn't just have. Yeah, it's the how does it have an integrated representation. master and his emissary.

00:45:41

James Redenbaugh: I think it's start by generating some pieces. content. Obviously important content on the page. Introduction about. We already have a lot to play with. But I'm really curious what what some of these artifacts might be. And if we can put them into air table and just like we can create a new tab. I'm just gonna open up our air table real quick and show you what I'm thinking.

00:46:41

Rob Sinclair: So while you do that, what's happening for me right now, James is like and Lauren. He's like, okay. So we need a a beautiful depiction of the 3 and the threeness. And then we're looking for ways to depict within each of those or in the interplay across those domains and activities. Images, words, audio in some kind of living fashion. That's the creative task. It feels like.

00:47:19

James Redenbaugh: Totally. And I wasn't thinking that audio. And that's that's key. That's, I think, really great to give these like we have on the weaving site a little player. So you're engaging the page. Here's some words, but here's a little audio. I'm just like push, play, and listen.

00:47:42

Rob Sinclair: Like, I, yeah, I that's exciting to me, both like for what you're naming. Lauren being the India live incomplete dialogical process. Real real time ish, you know, we don't want to overwhelm this and make it a daily podcast episode. We're trying to upload to the website. But like. how do we create some real timeness. And like, I would love to be able to just like, take a a little piano Haiku and drop it onto the website as a like. This is part of what we're doing like. This is a an artistic representation of some of the work. So yes, to audio.

00:48:20

James Redenbaugh: Cool. So here in air table, I just want to show you guys how to create your own mediums. And it's basically just creating a tab. So here I just created one for words. But 1st of all, let's define the 3 categories or domains. Can you list for me again, our 3 areas that we're talking about.

00:49:00

Lauren Tenney: You mean in the triangle.

00:49:02

James Redenbaugh: Yeah.

00:49:11

Lauren Tenney: Now you're now. I'm asking myself if I want to use the old language, which I should probably just be in relation to. What we put on our one pager before was adult-to-adult collaboration. educational environments and family and parenting. I don't. I'm I'm heavily biased towards fresh iterative depictions. So it's a bit of a problem sometimes, but that's what it was couple months ago.

00:49:52

James Redenbaugh: Totally what's great about air table now is that these? We can PIN these 3 things down as things and edit them whenever so these go in the categories tab. And then over here, I just made this artifact type. and I'm gonna add a field to link to another record. I'll link to those categories, I'll allow, linking to multiple records. And I'll say category. We can change the term category if we want. I'm not attached to it, and then I can link to those here. And then, even if we change these names or descriptions. These things will be well stay linked and then it. that's all we need. So this is a a word, one. It needs a name instead of notes. We can say, content. The words go there instead of assigning I'll delete that. But maybe, for now we insert a single line text field and say, author. which will can eventually be another reference field linking to another post type. I'll create that. And here's a Hi, 2 poem. And so maybe a poem is a word medium. Or maybe there's a whole medium just for poems. At this point it doesn't matter, I think. Let's let's create as many mediums as we can, and instead of starting from scratch, we can just duplicate a table table is just what they call these taps. So then we have the same categories. And so if I rename this, let's say artifact type 2 images, and then we can have the same field instead of this attachment. Field, I'll just say, this is the image. It's pretty primary, so I'll put it there, and we don't need content. We can keep author. We don't need status. And these categories still link to those 3 things. And then, similar. Similarly, we could do the same kind of things, for like events. and it knows each record can be called event and then it's probably gonna need a date. So we can add a date field over here. And why not include time, and time's up. So you guys get the idea.

00:53:52

Rob Sinclair: So that makes easy the living depiction. And we can add and delete so that we're not over. This doesn't become 80 things. We can be, you know, kind of pruning as we go.

00:54:05

James Redenbaugh: There's an archive somewhere, or something like that.

00:54:08

Rob Sinclair: And so then back to the the challenge of How is this depicted visually? In a way that's just enough. That's a fractal of and transmits the the intent.

00:54:24

James Redenbaugh: Yeah, so once we start putting content into here, then we can start playing with the front end, how it can start showing up. And then, if we need to prune, we can prune. You know, if we have different work mediums, and we decide actually, they can be 2. It's easy enough to copy and paste those records into a different post type. And manage things that way. That's the beauty about using their table. As opposed to keeping everything in the web flow Cms.

00:55:03

Lauren Tenney: It's crazy. It's like a 3 multidimensional spreadsheet web.

00:55:10

Rob Sinclair: Right. My brain loves it.

00:55:14

Lauren Tenney: Okay.

00:55:15

Rob Sinclair: There's so much logic in it.

00:55:17

James Redenbaugh: Yeah. cool. And our you know our weaving, are we? Staff is already on there and can continue to be.

00:55:35

Rob Sinclair: Yeah. okay, so I'm circling back to like again, what's the most essential version of this that we'd like to have depicted by like September early September. And so there's some visual representation of the threes with some words from us as we continue to crystallize and update those James in our parallel processes. We can be sending those to you. But we're counting on the visual to come from some of our, I guess, earlier conversations, or if we can be in dynamic collaboration with you about that somehow. Great. And then there's a flowing page of How do we want to depict whatever's getting populated in the air table. How do we want to depict and organize those things in a way that's all the things we've described that you you both were naming so well about like sufficiently engaging and invitational, but not overly responsibleizing the user and not just dumping a bunch of stuff at them in a way that's incomplete, but also sort of complete. For now, and all the things and related to the namesake is something we haven't talked a lot about. But like. how might we lean into trifora and the relationship it has with its surrounding ecosystem to depict a really congruent representation. Especially the underground activity, as well as the blooming, the beauty of the flower.

00:57:32

James Redenbaugh: Cool

00:57:39

Lauren Tenney: Maybe we don't, or maybe it doesn't happen yet, you know.

00:57:44

Rob Sinclair: Which part.

00:57:46

Lauren Tenney: Like. Depict the namesake, you know. I don't know that that it's needed. So.

00:57:55

Rob Sinclair: Well, you know simple things that come to mind like, I'm not talking about an elaborate drawing of any kind, necessarily. But like, okay, so what if blooms were 1st on that sequence? You know these are like the artifacts and expressions. And then what came next is like? These are the, you know, events and convenings. This is like the weaving that's happening. And these are, this is the underlying thinking that's driving some of those activities. It could just be sequenced in that way, that to me is still representative of a triflora.

00:58:21

Lauren Tenney: Burgers.

00:58:22

Rob Sinclair: No, that.

00:58:30

Lauren Tenney: I love that.

00:58:41

James Redenbaugh: Putting a quick pinterest together. I want to show you guys in one sec. I don't know why the the kind of typewriter. Aesthetic keeps coming to mind for me. But let me share this one. Sec. So I don't think we need any literal type typewriters or something overly stylized like that. But I'm thinking more. This kind of thing. There's a texture. There's a simple font. There's graphic elements used in key ways. This is a good example kind of understated, graphic element beneath the text. I don't know why the text is so light, or this in an elegantly pairing.

01:01:07

Rob Sinclair: Hmm.

01:01:08

James Redenbaugh: Write words on lots of white space with. here's a nice example as well. What do you guys think.

01:01:37

Lauren Tenney: As long as we don't tip over into like esoteric nerdy artists that makes people feel like they don't belong here because they don't get it. You know I I like. Where I go is I like the I like what what appeals to me about it is the accessibility, not the obscurity. Some of these are obscure, and I look at them, and I'm like fuck you. I don't want to do your funny dance with your weird placement of letters, you know, but like some of them, I'm like, Oh, that's just actually simple, or it's raw, or it's intentionally unfinished. Or, yeah.

01:02:16

Rob Sinclair: And I do like I like the, you know, use of lines and image and use of space with text there's like, but that it's clear and coherent. It's not. It's not like you brought me into your unfinished yeah, there's still something that I'm depicting. That's yeah.

01:02:36

Lauren Tenney: Like aesthetically, these ink and pen like Pen, that's yeah. So for my, for my limbic system, sometimes typewriter aesthetic is depressing. And sometimes it's really intimate and great, and I'll have to get more discerning about what makes the difference for me.

01:03:20

James Redenbaugh: And I I don't want the whole thing to feel like it was made on a typewriter. It's more like these kind of things where it's really.

01:03:33

Rob Sinclair: Yeah.

01:03:35

James Redenbaugh: Essential lines that have life and white space. And I said.

01:03:49

Rob Sinclair: Text.

01:03:50

James Redenbaugh: A very subtle texture to the background. Instead of.

01:03:59

Rob Sinclair: Yes.

01:04:00

James Redenbaugh: Instead of all white.

01:04:04

Rob Sinclair: What's the one there with the sort of Japanese to the right of yeah. like, that's overly elaborate. But the combination of text image use of space. There's something aesthetically that's pleasing about that to me.

01:04:20

James Redenbaugh: Yeah, this is what I was talking about with the images where.

01:04:25

Rob Sinclair: Oh, that's cool!

01:04:25

James Redenbaugh: We use images like this that don't have a that aren't put in a box but they they become these dynamically shaped, graphic elements on the page. Whether they're you know, whatever they are. and it doesn't need to be like masturbatory. Look how much design we can put into this. But this is a good example. It's like painted onto a canvas in an intentional way that that's telling a story that's that's ongoing, not here's a poster that describes everything that we're doing in 1 min.

01:05:34

Rob Sinclair: To me is a good example of the distinction between like essential representation versus like just totally unfinished. They have a kind of rawness that we could depict. One is just like, here's my scribble and the others like, here's my most essential descriptor, like depiction of something that is well thought through. Actually, that's there's there's something there's some substance behind it.

01:06:11

Lauren Tenney: So like of the things that are on the screen right now. The one with the hand interests me like what I like about. That is the the combination of qualities in it.

01:06:32

Rob Sinclair: Hmm.

01:06:35

Lauren Tenney: It's got a naturalist aesthetic that I appreciate.

01:06:46

Rob Sinclair: And for me, that's borderline into what you were describing Lauren of like so artistic as to almost be exclusive.

01:06:54

Lauren Tenney: Okay.

01:06:55

Rob Sinclair: It's close. I wouldn't totally put it there, but it's like we're venturing into that territory a bit. I like the one if you scroll back down James. There was like a tiling that had layers to it down one right beside the video. Yeah, just the use of dimensionality. There is nice. I don't love the actual content, but use of depth.

01:07:55

Lauren Tenney: I like the torn paper with the image behind it.

01:08:02

Rob Sinclair: Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, same like, that's the that's.

01:08:11

Lauren Tenney: I guess we should get on pinterest and find stuff. Huh?

01:08:16

James Redenbaugh: Sure.

01:08:21

Rob Sinclair: Hmm, oh, yeah, there's a bunch of cool ones there. The people canoeing through the newspaper. Alright. I feel the gravity of a rabbit hole here.

01:08:41

Lauren Tenney: Yeah.

01:08:44

Rob Sinclair: What do you need from us at this stage, James, to keep things rolling forward or like? What would a next sequence of contact points look like in service of having something created.

01:08:58

James Redenbaugh: Yeah, Austin, all these things we want to be conscious of.

01:09:02

Rob Sinclair: This is the next engagement of you and your team and your creative life force.

01:09:11

James Redenbaugh: some money would be helpful. Engaging with that air table playing in pinterest to the degree that it's helpful. So it feels like a rabbit hole. Don't worry about it, and

01:09:43

Rob Sinclair: It feels like doing. Some of that is our responsibility to join you in our updated sense of the aesthetic. So like, I, I think some of that feels right.

01:09:51

James Redenbaugh: Right.

01:09:53

Rob Sinclair: What about you, Lauren.

01:09:55

Lauren Tenney: Yeah.

01:09:58

James Redenbaugh: And we have so much that we've done in in Sigma, in Miro, or think it's Miro and on the website but for now I I almost want to just keep it simple. So maybe we We have another call in in about a week, and we've done some some mood, boarding, some writing, some contemplating, and then we can bring things together in I feel like an evolution of the design system will emerge. We can pull parts of what we already have. But also kind of leverage a blank, a blank canvas, in a way.

01:11:19

Lauren Tenney: Sounds good.

01:11:22

James Redenbaugh: Cool, great so you guys can schedule a time with me. We can. We can do a whole 90 min or I think we could do it in an hour. and really, intentionally, just kind of bring. Bring some things together, lay them out in space, would be great to have some some some words and and medium examples to to play with. And start to see what are the the key? What are some graphic aspects or elements. We can use to define this this style, to move forward.

01:12:15

Rob Sinclair: Yeah.

01:12:15

Lauren Tenney: That's good.

01:12:17

Rob Sinclair: Excellent. I'm conscious of Lauren's in a week with family next week, and I have a fairly full week, so it might be 2 weeks out that we try and grab a 90 min on your calendar, James, and do a next move. We can coordinate, maybe asynchronously, on how much money and which package are we engaging here to get to this next depiction we're hoping for and so that we just yeah, I don't wanna continue calling into your time without that being clear and in shared understanding. So wanna honor that.

01:12:53

James Redenbaugh: Sounds good.

01:12:57

Lauren Tenney: Thank you, James. That's helpful.

01:13:00

James Redenbaugh: Hey? Guys? Great to be with you both.

01:13:03

Rob Sinclair: Excited.

01:13:04

James Redenbaugh: Have an awesome week with your families, and talk to you soon.

01:13:09

Lauren Tenney: Okay.

01:13:09

Rob Sinclair: Take care, man.

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