00:00:09

Frank Kuhnecke: Hi.

00:00:10

Will Dragon: Hi guys.

00:00:11

James Redenbaugh: Camera set up here.

00:00:21

Frank Kuhnecke: Oh, three person, that's great.

00:00:29

James Redenbaugh: I'll be right back. Go downstairs and get my camera. Will, I'm going to make you host so you can let people in.

00:00:39

Will Dragon: Okay. I'm not sure I'm ready for that level of responsibility.

00:00:47

James Redenbaugh: Well sometimes you get I gotta throw you in the deep end.

00:00:51

Will Dragon: Right. I've just admitted Andreas.

00:00:55

Frank Kuhnecke: So here he is with his job.

00:01:02

Will Dragon: How you doing guys?

00:01:04

Andreas Fauler: Fine. Summers coming?

00:01:08

Will Dragon: The summer. The summer arrived in Germany.

00:01:11

Frank Kuhnecke: Yeah, yeah.

00:01:11

Andreas Fauler: Yesterday I would say. And today?

00:01:13

Will Dragon: Yeah, yeah. It's a little bit warm here in the UK today. It's a bit stuffy in the office.

00:01:20

Andreas Fauler: Nice.

00:01:21

Will Dragon: Yeah, can't complain.

00:01:22

Andreas Fauler: And the weekend is approaching. The weekend is approaching but the difference of the weekdays is not so much.

00:01:32

Will Dragon: Yeah.

00:01:33

Andreas Fauler: With me if you're self employed it's a little bit. It's not.

00:01:37

Frank Kuhnecke: Yes, yeah.

00:01:41

Will Dragon: Making that distinction between the two.

00:01:43

James Redenbaugh: Yeah.

00:01:44

Will Dragon: Right.

00:01:44

Andreas Fauler: I love weekends. I can work without being disturbed. Yeah. Cool.

00:01:50

Frank Kuhnecke: This sounds familiar.

00:01:54

Will Dragon: Andy. Hey, how you doing?

00:02:00

Andy Bittner: Doing great. How about you guys?

00:02:02

Will Dragon: Yeah, good. James has just gone downstairs to get his camera apparently so he'll be with us shortly.

00:02:13

James Redenbaugh: The problem with the external webcam as I can leave it elsewhere. All right. But we can get started. How is everybody?

00:02:28

Will Dragon: Good.

00:02:30

James Redenbaugh: We're all here, we're all here.

00:02:33

Andreas Fauler: We can't see you but we hear you.

00:02:37

James Redenbaugh: Just a sec. Should we do a quick round of check ins? It's been a little bit since we've seen each other.

00:02:49

Andreas Fauler: Yeah, very good. I start if you want. Frank and myself, we have worked on the Personas was very valuable from what we've discussed last time. So we really appreciate it and we also love the dynamic in the crowd and from each of you there have been quite relevant feedbacks. So it really already helped to get on the right path but of course now it gets on making it in a structured way and also scoping it the right way and so on. But I guess this will be discussed. So from my side I'm really looking forward and as said we have some made up some thoughts and I think yeah, we can give you some upside updates here. Yeah. And we also thought about a timeline which probably would suit us but let's see how possible it is.

00:03:52

AndyAndy Bittner: We can see it.

00:03:55

James Redenbaugh: Yeah.

00:03:55

Andreas Fauler: There he is.

00:03:56

James Redenbaugh: There I am. Can I be in focus? Yes, I can. All right, first meeting of the day obviously I'll go next. Thank you for that. Real quick. Yeah. Excited to be in this meeting. Been Traveling at a conference and then a retreat. Settling back in now. It's beautiful. Start of summer. Been warm here. Country's falling apart, but that's okay. And, yeah, excited to continue the conversation, talk about next steps. Happy there's a timeline in the mix and see where I can be of greater service.

00:04:54

Will Dragon: First of all, thanks for putting the development timeline together as well. That was really useful, James.

00:05:01

James Redenbaugh: Oh, yeah. I thought we needed something like that.

00:05:04

Will Dragon: Yeah, it's always a pain point, but it's so super helpful to have.

00:05:18

James Redenbaugh: You want to go next, Will?

00:05:21

Will Dragon: Yeah, so I've. I was. I was actually in Germany for. For a short while in. In Berlin. Loved it. Love Berlin. Very, very cool. Good vibes. And yeah, I've. I messaged Andreas just some thoughts on kind of next steps. Just obviously while were kind of like, just waiting to kind of like, pull together this. This kind of next stage. So I just sent some stuff over, disregarding thoughts. Nothing really outside of what we've already discussed, and probably nothing really beyond what we're going to discuss. So. Happy to share those if they're relevant. But, yeah, and that. That's me. And just. Yeah, just sitting. Just trying not to overheat in the office at the moment, seeing as the summer's kind of arrived in the uk.

00:06:33

James Redenbaugh: Wonderful. How are you, Andy?

00:06:36

Andreas Fauler: Doing great.

00:06:37

Andy Bittner: I'm traveling currently, so I'm in Bosnia and her. That's close to Croatia. Visiting my family for two weeks and working and sweating from here like it's 38 Celsius here.

00:06:49

Will Dragon: Wow.

00:06:50

Andy Bittner: In the. In the shade. So in the sun, it's. You can't stand in the sun. You can't do anything outside right now.

00:06:56

Will Dragon: Wow.

00:06:58

Andreas Fauler: But it's fun.

00:06:59

Andy Bittner: Yeah. Seeing a family and seeing them for dinner mostly, like every day. That's pretty cool. And working all the days.

00:07:07

Will Dragon: Yeah.

00:07:10

James Redenbaugh: Nice. That's a part of the world I've never been down to, but I've always wanted to check out.

00:07:18

Andy Bittner: Maybe you have to in the future. Yeah, I just, like, I saw some news about what's happening in your country.

00:07:25

James Redenbaugh: Yeah. Time to get out.

00:07:27

Andy Bittner: Yeah, it's. It's a bit scary. Well, I hope everything will be well in the future.

00:07:32

James Redenbaugh: Like, they turn around hopefully some way or another.

00:07:39

Will Dragon: I mean, they have to.

00:07:40

Andy Bittner: And like every. Everywhere in the world, there's something happening right now, so it doesn't matter.

00:07:45

James Redenbaugh: Yes. Okay, great. Well, where should we start? Do we want to look at the. The canvas together? Andres, you mentioned the timeline. What would be most helpful.

00:08:06

Frank Kuhnecke: To do both. So it doesn't matter how we start. I would think let's start with the timelines and you have a feeling how much time we have and this has an influence how we will discuss the Personas.

00:08:26

James Redenbaugh: Cool.

00:08:34

Andreas Fauler: Probably some constraints or some updates from our side. I think we will have a phase where we will be giving you or we have an interactive phase and I see it also in your timeline at the end where we give a lot of input and then you have a production phase where you do more and we just review or something like this. So. So probably major phases and Frank is out office beginning the two weeks of July. Beginning of July. So the question is, can we finalize the first phase which is highly interactive by end of June? That would be one question. And then move the let's say production into July. And then of course, I mean you have the eight weeks timeline. Yeah. So at the end that would mean we would be heading for something like mid August or however we tackle it. But yeah, time frame. So question is, can we move it? Can we organize around these two weeks of absence of Frank because otherwise we would have a delay in the whole production which would be a little bit, let's say it this way. We discussed how fast we want to be and then we said okay, a lot of things are really also depending on what we do here because it's not only a website, it's also how do we push it. So it's a little bit more on the let's say, go to market approach. And of course if we have the website, we can have a different, let's say outreach. So at the end, if we can be that fast, we probably would plan for a larger outreach when the website is ready. But if not, we would probably work around it, let's say.

00:10:38

James Redenbaugh: Cool. So that initial phase that's going to require a lot of input from you guys in my mind includes the content side of things, bringing the content together, also reviewing initial designs, getting a solid style guide in place for the creation of the website, starting to test website ideas together. And then if we have a solid block of content to work off of, we can do the majority of the design, the website design and then of course the building after Frank goes offline and we get into phase two. Is that your sense of things as well?

00:11:42

Andreas Fauler: Exactly. Yeah.

00:11:45

Frank Kuhnecke: I'm not off, I'm not out of the world. But I'm on the sailing boat on the sea and there's connection. Random.

00:11:58

James Redenbaugh: Cool.

00:11:59

Andreas Fauler: Offline.

00:12:02

James Redenbaugh: Why didn't you invite us?

00:12:05

Frank Kuhnecke: Because I'm invited.

00:12:08

James Redenbaugh: Why didn't they invite us?

00:12:11

Will Dragon: He's sailing. Where are you sailing from?

00:12:17

Frank Kuhnecke: Sweden to the north coast of Germany. A friend of mine has a boat and in the past we transfer some sailing boats when were younger and now we do it together. Two men on a boat. It's highly romantic.

00:12:39

Will Dragon: Excellent.

00:12:41

Andreas Fauler: The Bible Trinity.

00:12:43

Will Dragon: Nice.

00:12:45

James Redenbaugh: That'll be fun. So great. I think that's a good timeline. It also puts some fire under our bellies to move quick these next three weeks to get that first phase done. I am looking at the action plan now. I'm going to share my screen here.

00:13:16

Will Dragon: And.

00:13:21

James Redenbaugh: I kind of put down into this timeline everything I thought we would need. It's probably maybe naming too many things. It might be a little too complicated and we can simplify it. Hopefully it's not under complicated because it's not too complex of a website that we're talking about. But a lot of these items that I have in weeks one through three are good first phase items before we lose Frank to the seas and yeah, and then it looks like anyway I have in week four starting to get more into page designs, starting to get way webflow set up, things like that. So are there any comments, questions, ideas about how to simplify this that we want to talk about?

00:14:33

Andreas Fauler: I like it very much, to be honest. I think what would be very interesting for us because Frank and myself, we shouldn't be the bottleneck, but I think there's a lot or we need to. It would be very interesting for us to know what you need from us. I would say probably at least after the first workshop, I would say so that we can really work on the stuff. Because I would say if you work one item for one week, it can be quite short. So at the end I would say let's also put an emphasis on that we know exactly what you need from us at what time point in time so that we are not delaying it. I think the priority for the first week probably.

00:15:19

Frank Kuhnecke: Yeah, a very good result for today could be a list of questions we have to answer because we are not able to answer our own question. We dealt too long with this matter. What is the content? What is the method? What is the idea? I think we are able in a quite short time to deliver some content.

00:15:51

James Redenbaugh: Cool, great. What else do we want to get done today? While we're all here? We're already working on a plan of action.

00:16:07

Andreas Fauler: I would say also if we know we'll have meetings, probably also put me in meetings as put all meetings in. We already can schedule Today or at least in the next days so that we have some meetings in the calendar and have some sense of cadence and.

00:16:26

Frank Kuhnecke: So on and yeah, especially for Andreas and Mia and me, fixed meetings are helpful.

00:16:36

Andreas Fauler: Yeah. Or at the end it's not the number of meetings, but if we have some, we will have probably some challenges to finding the right slot. For example, if we are too short.

00:16:48

Frank Kuhnecke: Okay, good. Yeah, good idea. And I think we should go through the two main Personas, whether they are useful, handlebar and so on.

00:17:06

James Redenbaugh: Right. Awesome. And we should also probably discuss budgets and find some way to create a proposal for this between the three of us creatives time open to different ways of doing that and aware that we should move towards a an agreement so that we're all clear on what that is.

00:17:49

Andreas Fauler: Makes sense. Yeah, go ahead.

00:17:52

James Redenbaugh: Cool. Great. Well, why don't we actually start with. Unless there's more of the action and the scheduling meetings that we want to get into right now. What if we go into the Personas and then that will help us start to generate some more questions for you guys.

00:18:15

Frank Kuhnecke: Okay, cool.

00:18:18

Will Dragon: So.

00:18:21

James Redenbaugh: You shared a bunch of documents recently. I'm going to bring those up.

00:18:28

Andreas Fauler: Yes, Frank has sent it yesterday.

00:18:31

Frank Kuhnecke: Yeah, yeah. The third Persona is a fail back and we decide to focus on the Persona 1 and Persona 2. Persona 3 is possible, but as you told, working with three Personas is a little bit too much.

00:19:03

James Redenbaugh: Oh.

00:19:07

Frank Kuhnecke: This is Persona 3.

00:19:10

James Redenbaugh: That's Persona 3. This is the customer journey.

00:19:13

Frank Kuhnecke: Yeah. If he work on it.

00:19:19

James Redenbaugh: This is Persona 1.

00:19:23

Frank Kuhnecke: A short summarize. We call him Bjorn. This doesn't matter. He's about 45. He is a business economist and he is head of sales in a company. He lives in Batonborg. For you, that's one of the expensive parts of Frankfurt nearby. He's married, has two children and he has an academic background. And he is a sales manager. And as his behavior he's quite disillusioned with sales methods because every two years you have a new sales method going through the village. He want to motivate with money. He's money focused, he's competitive. And as all sellers and sales managers, he's quite self confident. Personal life, family, lifestyle, money, mountain biking, traveling. Standard preferred channels for him is LinkedIn. And his goals. He has sales responsibility and management responsibility. He has to develop the people. And his pain is only 10% of the sellers are successful. Most sellers do not improve, but he has to keep them. His company is attached it to a few deals because the deals so important. And his sales Rate has to increase every year and everything. What is normal standard here is already done. He's not a beginner and he wants to improve people organization. And his most loved quote is I need self running people because that means he doesn't have. You got a feeling for this guy?

00:21:39

James Redenbaugh: Definitely. Awesome.

00:21:48

Andreas Fauler: Industry is probably tech and software. I would say. So we can pretty much probably narrow it down to technology and high margin businesses. For example. Mostly probably software.

00:22:01

James Redenbaugh: Cool. Any questions for these guys about Bjorn while we're here?

00:22:12

Andy Bittner: That's pretty good.

00:22:14

James Redenbaugh: Cool. Looks like he needs an image.

00:22:19

Frank Kuhnecke: Yeah. It was not possible to put on a PDF an image?

00:22:24

James Redenbaugh: I think it's possible, but.

00:22:25

Frank Kuhnecke: Oh, great.

00:22:27

Andy Bittner: This looks great.

00:22:29

Andreas Fauler: The green one. Yeah. He's bald.

00:22:33

James Redenbaugh: Yeah.

00:22:35

Andreas Fauler: But he smiles.

00:22:37

James Redenbaugh: Okay, here's Persona 2. Happens to look exactly the same.

00:22:43

Frank Kuhnecke: Yeah, you painted on the surface. Fine.

00:22:48

James Redenbaugh: Yeah.

00:22:51

Frank Kuhnecke: The first is a manager. He is not directly involved in selling. Only in the critical moments. The second Persona is a seller, A direct seller. We call him Andreas because it's a very common name.

00:23:08

Andreas Fauler: And beautiful name.

00:23:10

Frank Kuhnecke: Beautiful name. Great name.

00:23:11

Andreas Fauler: Sure.

00:23:13

Frank Kuhnecke: 34. He doesn't study selling or economics. He did something else. He living in Frankfurt downtown. He's in love. No children, academic. And he's focused on career. And he consider himself for very communicative. And he think he's better. He can do it better than others as most selling people. And he tries to educate himself further. Sports. Fine. Soccer, cars, watches. He's collecting watches. The preferred channel. We are not really clear whether he's already Instagram or still LinkedIn. I don't know his problems. His goals is quota every year and to be in the 30 best. Quite competitive. And his pain private relationships, suffering. He needs a rice customer. He has to address internal resources. So influence internal people is difficult with some customers you do it or you do it. Not hop or top. It's German.

00:24:42

Andy Bittner: And.

00:24:45

Frank Kuhnecke: He must constantly prove himself. That is a new approach. What works has a growth mindset and is willing to work on its nick yourself. So then itself or himself. It was translation software. So quite normal young motivated and self confidence bigger than the person.

00:25:23

Andreas Fauler: So.

00:25:26

Frank Kuhnecke: You don't know anything or you have a problem. Wouldn't work.

00:25:36

Andreas Fauler: And this would be. I mean this is not the majority probably of sellers, but it's. It's still quite common. But this would be the individual seller who would probably even say I pay on my own to participate in the program. While the other is a typical enterprise sale which says okay, I am this chief sales officer. I want to do it. But still I need to buy info on hr. It needs to be aligned with our sales training concept and so on. So the first one is more or less an enterprise sales attempt. And this one is probably, yeah, more B2C focused or either he pays on its own or he convinces his boss to pay for him just for one seat. So this would be also quite big differentiation here.

00:26:23

Frank Kuhnecke: The second one will be more online and the first it would be more presence training.

00:26:34

Andreas Fauler: So the idea. Exactly. So it's also different products at the end we address. And so the second one would be a journey, let's say six months journey, the best sales months of your life. And with let's say a mix of online and on site and probably a monthly fee. And it could convert into a membership in the fight club we mentioned last time. And there you would have a start date where you say, okay, we need at least six or nine people. And then the program runs so mixed approach over a longer period of time. And the other is mainly training and fight club. But it's. It can be individualized to the requirements of the company. It could be even multiple Stream. If it's 20 people to train, it's multiple tracks and so on. So that would be the first one.

00:27:27

Will Dragon: Andrea. Sorry, sorry. Just to jump in there, I think what you've just. What you've, what you've just highlighted there in that short breakdown around what each of these characters, where there's. Which silo they fall into. For me, that's probably some of the most important insight that you can give just across both sectors. So it might be worth just maybe putting that down into a document just so that you're kind of talking about this is maybe where you're going to feel them, that you've got the kind of enterprise and then the individual, then these characters, then all of that information you just kind of just went through just then. I think that would be really useful to go into these demographics.

00:28:14

Andreas Fauler: Yes. And for example, with the second one it would be probably there is a date on the website you can directly register or apply to be a member. So the idea is the people need to apply for the program and then they have to answer some questions and we select the right ones, something like this. And then you have more content on the individual part than with the enterprise thing there. You would probably just catch the email or the contact details.

00:28:47

Will Dragon: Yeah.

00:28:50

Andreas Fauler: Yeah, but right, let's. I mean this is something. Yeah. We will anyhow have to work on. But you're right, that would be the production. Yeah.

00:28:58

Will Dragon: For me I just think that helps to define the. The kind of the two areas that we're looking at outside of maybe more of the detail around the individuals but where they. Where they fit into the kind of broader approach. Do you agree James?

00:29:17

James Redenbaugh: Yeah, definitely. Because it. It's really important understanding these two different products and there's a way in which I think that they can fit together well and there can be a symbiotic and then. And then there's a way that we could confuse ourselves and the user as to what's really being offered. I'm curious what's in Persona 3. I'm hesitant to even.

00:29:54

Frank Kuhnecke: Persona 3 is a key account person who has to establish a stable relationship with the customer to over to tell him bad news we can't deliver at this moment. Please wait. We made a mistake. This is less selling and more. More business relation gave the training for the key accounts already key accounts they got more fires there got more critics. They have to deal hot situations when the customer is really angry and this is the fail back if the sellers doesn't go in. We did it with key accounts this training of Herrero and I did the training with Microsoft the first version of this training and there is a lot of discussion what can I do when we made a big mistake and they have to wait and how to cool them down or how to push them to give us numbers in the right moment. It's. It's not the same as selling but the similar.

00:31:23

Andreas Fauler: It's not mainly the task to sell or increase revenue but make the customer happy and successful project and relationship probably. Yeah.

00:31:34

Will Dragon: Yeah.

00:31:35

Andreas Fauler: So it was already sold and then it's more on the delivery side probably and preparing for an upsell.

00:31:41

Will Dragon: Yeah it's more of a kind of client management kind of but still within the sales after sales and it could.

00:31:50

Andreas Fauler: Also be escalation managers. So for example as SAP they have people they get in when it's really hot and. And they protect the field people at some point in time. So these red. I would say that would be the extreme version of that. Yeah but probably. Yeah I would say probably it's. Or yeah, let's keep it open. If we put all three on them on it or just two let's say but I would say the prioritization is 1, 2, 3. I mean the enterprise sale of course is most interesting but it's also taking quite some time and it's. It's not well known the methodology. So there is a hurdle. You have a longer path and more people to convince and we want to also have the really hot people who understand it and say I do it. And the Persona 2 can be the entry drug for an enterprise deal also. I mean, we expect it's the best sellers who apply for the individual training. And if they say, hey, I've been on this training, it was really cool. And they tell it's their boss and then the boss says, oh shit, I think everybody here needs it. So that's also a little bit of the notion we hope to achieve. These crazy super cool people who think they look for ways or non obvious ways to improve themselves. And what we also found out is we know there is a fatigue in sales methodologies and trainings overall. So people always do trainings, but after the training they do exactly the same as they did before. So the impact of trainings, if you have a two day training in many cases is not very good. There are some people who adopt something, but it's the impact from the training on its own is not very good. And we found out we want people who want to work on the topic for six months. It's not for pleasure, it's for work. And Kung fu means exactly that. Practice regularly and sacrifice. So really this could be one of the, let's say, decision points we highlight very much. We say, hey, this training is only for people who want to sacrifice and work for six months on something they don't know yet. But if you do it, you will have a real impact. Forget all the trainings for two days and afterwards you do exactly the same. No, this is a different thing. And if you don't want to work for six months, stay away.

00:34:31

Will Dragon: This kind of approach, again, I think that's key just to maybe just have that as a note. That's part of your call to action. That's part of what you're doing. You know, your selling point is that that's what your focus is and that's the kind of people that you want to be like. I know that you said a while ago that, you know, you're not here to take everyone on board. You're not here to please everyone. You're here for the people that want to be here and want to learn. So I think there's an element of you need to be upfront about that. If that's what you know you're expecting of people, then that's fair enough. It isn't for everyone. This isn't going to be a broad brushstro that's going to fit everyone's needs. So I think if you're upfront about that as well. That could part, that could form part of the dialogue.

00:35:31

Andreas Fauler: Yes. And we recently met a former colleague of mine who was the most successful guy, even more than me. He retired and he said I still want to learn every day. And we said, hey, you're an old guy. But yes. And probably, I'm not sure how many sales trainings you got in, but if you are in a sales training. And afterwards I was always listening for the feedback round and some people said, oh, it was great. It was reiterating what I was doing anyway. It was nice. But it was a. And some said, hey, I learned something, it's new, I will adopt it. And the people who said it's a reiteration of what I do anyhow, they don't do it and they don't learn anything. They stay. They are fixed mindsets and the ones the best, they learn from everything. But some don't do it and it's independent from age and so on. So that was the idea with the growth mindset. And this is something we want people who have the growth mindset and say, yes, I want to work for it. And I also believe I can improve myself. I think many people don't believe they can improve for multiple reasons.

00:36:45

Will Dragon: Yeah, it's interesting the point you made about the people that have become slightly jaded by the, you know, maybe some of the older guys or the older salespeople where they feel that they don't have anything new to learn. And it's about this, you know, what you're offering is a new insight and a different approach.

00:37:08

Frank Kuhnecke: Yeah. And I think this is one. I don't know how to, to form the message that people understand. But it's a. Definitely it's another approach to communication. Most people in communication training or in sales training are content focused. This is definitely not content focused.

00:37:35

Andreas Fauler: Product pitching. Like hell. I would say level one of a salesperson is product pitching Feature function feature as it's called. That's version one. Version two is I, I talk about the value, the numbers and we are version three. We are embracing the human talk value beyond product and connect with the person on different levels, heart, head, hand and back from the mechanical reproduction of sales playbooks that some sales operations guy has put together. So at the end it's freer form and you cannot plan it. That's one of our. So you need to train your intuition and train it to have the right intuition, the right moment and go, not only don't Be happy with somebody who says, oh, it was nice. I think it, we can think about it. You need to blow their mind away so you don't settle too early. You need to blow their minds away and their hearts and they need to tell their wife in the evening. I've met Andreas and this was one of the best meetings I ever had. So really. And we want to work with this team. I don't care about the product, but these guys are so crazy. So this kind of stuff, it's.

00:39:12

Frank Kuhnecke: Highly related on feedback. We have some people in coaching and the feedback, they do something and say, okay look, here's your weak point. This is critical.

00:39:32

James Redenbaugh: Great.

00:39:33

Andreas Fauler: Yeah.

00:39:33

James Redenbaugh: So yeah, I feel like we have a good sense of the Personas and the products being offered. I wonder if we want to get a bit into how we can approach the strategy of creating the content on the page. I feel like we have an underlying sense of the experience that we want people to have when they land on the page. Maybe we can bring some of those ideas out about that journey that we want folks to go on. What's going to be most important to communicate. I feel like we kind of want to ideally kung fu them into understanding what's being offered, understanding if it's right for them and compelling them to take the. The next step, which at this point is probably likely getting in touch with you guys. Is that right? Have a conversation.

00:40:45

Andreas Fauler: Chief sales officers, we want to capture their contact for sure. It's somehow to get in a conversation with them. And for the others it's. They have to apply for the program and then they have to answer some questions and we select the best. So we really address their competitiveness and say, hey, if you're interested, apply to the program. And you need to prove to us that you're worse for the program. And we so this kind of stuff.

00:41:18

James Redenbaugh: Awesome. And eventually maybe some kind of assessment can be offered, but not immediately.

00:41:28

Frank Kuhnecke: We have one assessment we show to you. This is everyone can do it directly if you like to do give me mail, you will get coaching for free. But I think difficult. We need some convincers right at the beginning. Just telling that special. Okay, that's not so interesting. And I, I can tell you some of the convinces we are using in the seminar. Maybe it helps. One is a typical sales situation. We had one example. You're in a sale situation. The guy asks you for the price. You say €3,000 a day and he says, oh, we never pay more than 1500 and you got A shock and answer perhaps at least we need two. Then you ruined thousand euro per day in three seconds. And there we have some examples who are typical and say okay, how will you do? How would you react? And then we show some reactions out of the model. One that's a very great question. I will answer. But in front of I have two questions. This is avoiding the question, ignoring the 2000. Just ignore it because if it's not mentioned, it's not existing. Or answering with shall we go directly or are we able to discuss? This is threatening. So you have some different ways to answer and you can see this is better than you normally do. This is one of the convincing we do in seminars. We create critical situations and what would you do? And then we show there are several ways, but you have to train them because under stress you're not able to think.

00:43:49

Andreas Fauler: But that would be examples. Okay, yeah, that would be the way of. Yeah, of an example.

00:43:56

Frank Kuhnecke: And the second proof. I have some German videos from any talk shows where the moderator is asking really tough questions and the person is giving weak or unlucky answers. And we say, okay, if you had. If he had done this hadn't be a problem. If you had done this, it would be easy. There are some quite. We found two situation from movies in a discussion where they answered not so good and you could answer better. This is the second way we can show a. A short movie clip and showing what the people are doing in the discussion. For example, I did it one time with a speech of Mahatma Gandhi in the film Gandhi when he kicked out the Britain. This is really good done shows. Now he doing this. Now he's doing this, now he's doing that. That's why it works. This is a second idea to. To create a convincer. And the third is to discuss profiles. So this is a profile of a person he's not able to threaten and is not able to create a vision. And this is the problem in this discussion. This is three ways we can do it directly, interactive, by playing in a seminar. But we are the models. And then they challenge us and we give a good answer and then we won the com. The audience. But I don't know really how to make it on a website.

00:45:53

James Redenbaugh: Awesome.

00:45:53

Andreas Fauler: The pain is. I always start with the pain. And the pain would be in the moments of truth or in the most important moments, if you act in the wrong way or not in the optimal way, you're losing. And first thing is, okay, what are these moments? And how can you. Or what other or how Big is your, let's say, keyboard you're playing on. Are you playing on two octaves? And yeah, it's not the nicest music you can play there, but if you have more, it can get bigger. Bigger. Yeah. So if you want to convince a really a connoisseur of music, it's not playing on three chords, it's really making a symphony. Or let's say this is my wording now, but I mean, I would say extending the keyboard of social interaction is some theme I would say could map it. And the pain is okay. You know, you're. Sometimes you really respond in a bad way, and that kills your ear.

00:47:06

Frank Kuhnecke: At least five hotspots where you see, this is a moment you have to react. This is a typical moment where most of the conversations are going wrong.

00:47:17

Andreas Fauler: But, I mean, the first difference is we touch things that happen in the interaction with the client. 90% of what other sales methodologies do is not what's happening in the interaction in front of the customer, but before or after or somewhere else. So I would say this is something that's already a quite interesting focus. And then. Of course. Exactly. It's really the patterns you can apply and not the content or frank.

00:47:55

James Redenbaugh: So it's. Sorry. I'm seeing one potential way of thinking about the homepage because we're appealing to folks that are very confident. I hesitate to lead with too much pain. We don't want to be like, you suck at sales and want to get better because they already think they're great. But I keep having these ideas about superpowers, like, whether we use that term or not, there are these super abilities that you're talking about that people can cultivate. And if they can start to get a sense of the territory and see, like. Yeah, the secret knowledge in, like, these three domains. Understanding yourself and your capabilities, understanding the Persona and who you're dealing with, and understanding the territory. Like, what are the moves that you can link together? And I think having some image or visual where you can see a path and it kind of flows like a kung fu combination or even like a. Like a video game combination where you hit the right buttons at the right time and then you do like a crazy move. We don't want it to be too kitschy or corny, but playful. Yeah, definitely playful and. Yeah. And fun. And having the visuals mirror the. The secret knowledge that you guys are wanting to transmit.

00:49:25

Andreas Fauler: And I mean, we. We don't have to answer everything on the website. We need to answer. Ask questions where they say, shit, this is a Cool question. This is. This sounds different. Interesting. Let's dig into it.

00:49:42

Will Dragon: I think what we discussed the last time where were saying just to keep it super simple, not to over complicate, not to get too much into the detail of what it is people are going to be doing because that stuff's just going to kind of confuse people too much. But yeah, finding out and offering like you just said Andreas offering some key insights that people kind of then go oh okay, these guys know what they're talking about, you know. And then that is going to entice people to kind of want to find out more.

00:50:12

Andreas Fauler: I mean one thing, for example, C level interacting with C level. This is a task. If you want to do super senior sales, you need to be able to talk to C level and C level. These are the most content free conversations I had because they are doing small talks more than the content because they want to check people. So this is really super kung fu at the end. So you really. It's a status play, for example. So this would be. I mean this could be something that attracts people but it would be already also quite special. But this probably on that dimension or.

00:50:53

Frank Kuhnecke: Regarding to give some insights. We can give some insights where that are quite special and the people doesn't know already. The art of threatening, for example normal threatening is I take my big brother and I beat you. That doesn't work as true, you see with Trump. But the second is creating a dark future and the third and these people don't know. We call it the Sicilian threat. We had it already. No Sicilian threat. I I try I have to put something here and says I know your father and I was. I would be very sad if he's crying about your death and this prevent. So I create a threat and I say but I don't want this happening. I want to help you. That's an awful way of threatening and you do have it all the time in the companies. It's not necessary to give me the information. But if the CEO ask I wouldn't like to say. My problem is that I didn't get your information. You understand this is a way of threatening and this is the insight Most people are not really good at threatening. So we can create some insights special.

00:52:33

Andreas Fauler: It's already also quite detailed on product level.

00:52:36

Frank Kuhnecke: Yeah, I mean, I know.

00:52:38

Andreas Fauler: I mean that's really. We have different levels. I mean we have the. What we exactly do and we love it, as you can see. And it's the cool thing is and this is something that was really me was Astonishing for me, we can make something that people think is an art and is not learnable. We can make it learnable because we can make it understandable and repeatable and trainable. So, of course threatening. If you say, hey, we teach you how to threaten, they say, hey, well, why should I know it? Yeah, but there's a limited number of ways how people interact and one is threatening and you for sure are not threatening enough. So yeah, so yeah, the question is on which, I mean, you get a lot of information now for it and you will tell us what we do in the afterwards. But yeah, it's, I would say, Frank, the creating a mystery. And the question is on which level do we. What level of. Or what do we give? As that said, that they say, I want to know more. This is for me and I don't what level. I mean, we shouldn't tell what it is, we should just announce it or give a glimpse and then so.

00:54:12

Frank Kuhnecke: And maybe we should give one or two examples who are impressing and not more because otherwise we are doing the training and the advertising. This doesn't make sense.

00:54:26

Andreas Fauler: And if it's a mystery, I mean, we just want people to apply or to call us. We don't want to do website. So they need to say, so I mean, they need to say, hey, I need to call this guy, he's away, or I, I will apply. Yeah. So.

00:54:43

James Redenbaugh: Oh yeah, and I think that's a great question for you guys to sit with for a bit of what is that glimpse that you want to offer? And it could be a short glimpse, it could be a big glimpse. I wouldn't be afraid of giving too much away because there's so much there. You know, there's so many potential levels and tool sets and things that people can dive into, but you want to give them just enough to get that sense of the value that's being offered to have them take that next step.

00:55:22

Andreas Fauler: What we also probably can consider is how do we get the credibility into the methodology and the people? So we could add credibility via our Personas or probably think of what else. But at the end they will learn about CS Kung Fu. They have never heard about it and why should I care? So credibility based on facts that we can reproduce could be one approach to say, hey, these guys are cool. Probably what they do is even. It's also cool or even cooler. So this kind of stuff. Or would we keep it, leave it a mystery? So, yeah, but I mean the question is how can we get credibility for the thing.

00:56:08

Frank Kuhnecke: There'S one question to the experts. How important is our biography? Shall we work with it or is it too early or too much?

00:56:23

James Redenbaugh: No, I think like Andres is saying, it's important for us to see who you guys are. We don't need extensive about pages, but you two are both bringing such a wealth of experience in different domains that are really interesting. I think you should definitely touch on those and we should present you two well.

00:56:52

Frank Kuhnecke: Okay, so one of the tasks we already taking with us is a half pager of biography. Is this, is this the right volume or too much?

00:57:06

James Redenbaugh: I think so. I think half a page to. I mean, depending on the typography, half a page is a good amount of content, I think.

00:57:20

Frank Kuhnecke: Okay.

00:57:24

Will Dragon: I also think, Frank, that some of your history in in training for Kung Fu and all of these things make it also appealing, you know, like whether you want to talk about that or not. But I just, I think there are some things about your personalities that just also make it appealing, that make people think, okay, this is different. You know, this is that there is something here and it's intriguing for me to want to kind of meet these guys and learn from them. So fundamentally, you know, I think that's going to be quite key.

00:57:57

Andreas Fauler: I would also say probably we highlight a few really powerful things and not try to be complete. So it's just say Kung fu, Frank and PhD in psychology. I don't know. But something like this.

00:58:14

Will Dragon: Yeah, I think all of that is a benefit. I think all of that is a bonus because it makes you stand out. It makes you, it makes you the individuals which fundamentally, frankly, that's what the company is going to be about, is about your experience and what you can bring and why it's different and how you're approaching that. All of those things are quite core. And I think that those are the kind of unique selling points around it. You know, what differentiates you from the others and some of, you know, some of that history around you is what is going to make it different, is what's going to make you stand out.

00:58:46

Frank Kuhnecke: I think we are creating for each of us two or three versions and you are able to decide which is best because to estimate his own biography, it's a really difficult job. Okay, I got it.

00:59:08

Andreas Fauler: I mean, and from the style it needs to fit into the old page design. So at the end, I would say probably the form factor will probably be adapted anyhow later. But what are the key, let's say, facts that we want to Use and yeah, I would say that makes sense. So that we think of. Okay. These two or three facts person are the really powerful.

00:59:29

Will Dragon: Yeah.

00:59:30

Frank Kuhnecke: Lines we are able to work on this. Great.

00:59:34

James Redenbaugh: Great. Awesome. Okay, well, I feel like we have generated some questions for you guys. We can. I can follow up after this to make it clear what those questions are. I'll pull them out of the transcript. Yeah.

00:59:54

Frank Kuhnecke: Frank, if you have the questions already, I'm able to type what is your biography? Okay. And if you give us three or more you already have, now will be the right one.

01:00:14

James Redenbaugh: Yeah. Who are you guys for sure. Another big question is what is that glimpse that you want to offer people as a taste of what's there? There's another general question around content for the homepage. So any other ideas you guys are having about what to include in their reflections on what. On the ideas that came up today. The homepage is really going to be most important for that.

01:00:55

Frank Kuhnecke: So what are our content ideas? Is this a question?

01:01:01

James Redenbaugh: Yes.

01:01:01

Frank Kuhnecke: Okay, good.

01:01:03

James Redenbaugh: Got it. I have a question. We didn't ask about language. Is the page going to be in English, in German or both?

01:01:12

Frank Kuhnecke: I think both. English, it's a must have and. But our first start will be in Germany, so B. Lingual, but that's technical, not a problem.

01:01:33

Andreas Fauler: And the product, I would say, as you already mentioned, so the description of the different kinds of products for the different Personas, to put it down a little bit more and I think you can also have it if it's on the page or not, is a different question. But I would say, I mean, it.

01:01:54

Will Dragon: Feels like for the homepage you just need to have something that's kind of generic, that covers off fundamentally what you're going to be doing for everyone that comes to the course, whether that's an individual or whether that's from a corporate, you know, so that initial kind of pitch, as it were, is going to be generic for both. And then you would then start to kind of filter down maybe more of the specifics about how each one might benefit. I mean, the overall benefit will be the same for both, but then there will be maybe specifics around each one. So, you know, it's maybe just starting to kind of like think about what's that top level message. Then what's the hook that people start to kind of, you know, like James has already said, you know, what is that thing that, what is the glimpse that you kind of start to get that insight and then you can start to break it down where you go, right, if you're an individual, then this is how you're going to benefit more from it. And if you're kind of corporate, then this is how you're going to benefit from it. You know, both of them fundamentally are the same benefits, but some are going to be more specific to, you know, if you're buying it for your team, you know, what that does for you as a company and the team, etc. And the company, you know, and then the individual is about, more about, you know, you're pushing the benefit around, you know, giving you know what the broader kind of like techniques and things that they'll learn and all of those kinds of things. So for me, that's kind of where from a very loose idea around content, we need to start.

01:03:38

Frank Kuhnecke: Differentiation. Differentiation and maybe next level like this.

01:03:45

Will Dragon: Yeah.

01:03:48

Frank Kuhnecke: Benefit for every Persona and some detail like this. This is the question you ask just to understand.

01:03:57

Will Dragon: Yeah, I mean, I, I'm sorry, I'm just trying to sort of say if we're looking at homepage content, then that's how I would start to kind of break it down into the kind of levels of detail around, you know, so if you imagine yourself scrolling down the page, your top level is, you know, what you're kind of saying there. Then you're kind of getting into more detail. Then as you go further down the page, you're getting, breaking it down into further detail. So it's, that's kind of starting just to kind of get a feel for how that homepage content might need to work.

01:04:34

James Redenbaugh: Okay.

01:04:36

Will Dragon: And, and then it's about. Yeah. Do you agree, James?

01:04:42

James Redenbaugh: Yep, yep.

01:04:46

Frank Kuhnecke: I got a feeling. And so we have to prepare two alternative hierarchies that you are able to compare.

01:04:56

Will Dragon: Yeah, yeah. And I think the test will be frank, the obvious, like you guys have said to us before that, you know, you have trouble separating yourselves from the project and the content. And I think the key test will be for us to be able to kind of look at that content and then say, okay, we kind of get what it is you're saying and get it is what it is you're selling. And whether that's too long winded or whether it's not enough detail, you know, we'll quite quickly be able to kind of understand that. And James will have a very good idea around what content needs to kind of appear on the website for people to be able to kind of, you know, as an initial kind of look. I think so. Yeah. I think that's where we'll Start to see.

01:05:50

Frank Kuhnecke: Yeah, it looks like a small job, but I think it will take hours and heavy discussions for me.

01:05:56

Andreas Fauler: Just. It just comes to mind a sales guy in the suit who fails and then he puts on a Kung Fu jacket and he is successful. So. Hey, doesn't this look like you? You're really good but sometimes you get punched in your face. Try the Kung Fu style.

01:06:20

Frank Kuhnecke: If you have ever seen Kung Fu in China, you will see nobody is wearing fancy clothes. They're doing the awful sport cloth. You can imagine. Even browser. But we can't use it for the web page. I understood. It's okay.

01:06:39

Andreas Fauler: Need to be nice.

01:06:41

Frank Kuhnecke: Good, cool. Good.

01:06:44

James Redenbaugh: Great.

01:06:47

Frank Kuhnecke: And I think last. Maybe we found some. Or I found some. Some pictures from China and Kung Fu you can use. We will do a small collection. Maybe you can use it.

01:07:05

Will Dragon: Yeah, I think for me that's going to be the next stage as well is just obviously, I think once we've got an idea around content and what the website. What, what content we've got on the website and what we then need to start to kind of flesh out, you know, I think all of your. Any, any ideas that you've got around how you might want to pitch the, you know, the look of it, how much Kung Fu you want in there and how little you want. You know, I think that's going to become quite interesting to sort of then play around with what visually ends up looking like. And like James said earlier, we don't want to kind of go too overboard with the Kung Fu, but equally it has to feel right.

01:07:47

Frank Kuhnecke: I think that's level two. We have enough to do.

01:07:50

Will Dragon: Yeah, for sure.

01:07:51

Frank Kuhnecke: And it's funny that Andreas likes Kung Fu, the visual way of Kung Fu, much more than me because he likes fancy and I like. Well, it's daily. So you have to decide what's the right level.

01:08:09

Will Dragon: Okay.

01:08:11

Andreas Fauler: In between or crazy.

01:08:14

Frank Kuhnecke: It's a very something in between. Great, good, great. It's a heck of work. I see. But it's very good because we have anchor points. We can work on it during the next week.

01:08:34

James Redenbaugh: Yeah. So agreement wise, I feel like I have enough information to draft a proposal and then maybe I can share that with Will andy, get their input on it and share it with you guys with some different options.

01:08:51

Andreas Fauler: Okay, great. If you have any questions in the meantime, just reach out. We can answer them asynchronously. Asynchronously as you need it. But yeah. Great.

01:09:04

James Redenbaugh: Okay, great. And Will andy, you guys and I can look at that together and then see how we can. How we want to break down the. The work and make it happen.

01:09:16

Will Dragon: Yep. No worries. Happy to jump on a call if you need to as well.

01:09:20

James Redenbaugh: Cool.

01:09:21

Andy Bittner: Yeah.

01:09:23

James Redenbaugh: Okay, guys, Good to see you all. Talk to you soon. And excited to start seeing things come together.

01:09:31

Will Dragon: Yeah. Have a good weekend.

01:09:33

Andreas Fauler: Have a nice weekend. Bye.

01:09:35

James Redenbaugh: Take care.

01:09:37

Frank Kuhnecke: Bye. By.

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