00:00:04

Kevin Triplett: This meeting is being recorded.

00:04:56

James Redenbaugh: Hey, Kevin.

00:04:57

Kevin Triplett: Hey. Hey. Finally.

00:05:00

James Redenbaugh: How's it going?

00:05:01

Kevin Triplett: Good, good. And you?

00:05:04

James Redenbaugh: Doing pretty good. Getting, Getting back into the flow of things after my honeymoon.

00:05:10

Kevin Triplett: Yeah.

00:05:10

James Redenbaugh: How was. Was great. It was sweet. Good to have some time off. Step away from the computer.

00:05:20

Kevin Triplett: Yes. Good, good, good.

00:05:24

James Redenbaugh: Where are you right now?

00:05:26

Kevin Triplett: I'm on my way to visit a friend in Taos, New Mexico. He moved there from la. Oh.

00:05:33

James Redenbaugh: Oh, cool. Oh, my camera froze. I think you're going to swap the batteries out.

00:05:40

Kevin Triplett: Ah, okay. I thought it might be my connection.

00:05:44

James Redenbaugh: No. Okay, I'll fix it. You said you're on your way to Taos?

00:05:52

Kevin Triplett: Taos, New Mexico. Yeah, a friend of mine from LA moved there with his family and we've been mean to get together for quite a while.

00:06:00

James Redenbaugh: He's.

00:06:01

Kevin Triplett: He's. He's another brilliant person. Wanting to make tools for better society. So I'm gonna talk with him and see. See how we can collaborate. We want to collaborate. We just. We need to do an.

00:06:25

James Redenbaugh: Wonderful. Yeah, yeah, that's great.

00:06:28

Kevin Triplett: Really looking forward to it. So I'm pulling my little Airstream Base camp. I haven't been camping in a long time, so this is a real thrill. Oh, cool.

00:06:37

James Redenbaugh: Yeah, nice. I'm gonna see my brother this weekend. He lives in North Carolina, but he brought his Airstream up here, so we'll see him this weekend.

00:06:51

Kevin Triplett: Cool, Cool. Awesome.

00:06:53

James Redenbaugh: Yeah.

00:06:54

Kevin Triplett: And you're in Virginia, is that right?

00:06:56

James Redenbaugh: Or where?

00:06:56

Kevin Triplett: Philadelphia. Philadelphia. Okay, cool.

00:06:59

James Redenbaugh: Yeah, my wife's from Virginia.

00:07:02

Kevin Triplett: Ah, okay. Okay. Yeah, let's see. Yeah, I'd love to. I don't know. Where do you want to go? We've talked a couple of times and.

00:07:17

James Redenbaugh: Yeah. Where should we start? What's the impetus for this call?

00:07:24

Kevin Triplett: I think that I wanted to just kind of drop in with you about what you're seeing would be helpful for holos. I also wanted to check in with you to see if you or somebody wants to join this UX task force. And I can talk a little more about what it means and what it's about and I feel like we could do some more personal connection, but I feel like we kind of did that on the previous calls and we're kind of comfortable that we're mission aligned and values aligned and that we're super cool people.

00:08:09

James Redenbaugh: The coolest. Yeah, sounds good. Yeah. Curious about the UX Task force. That sounds good. Sounds interesting. Excited about holos. I've been trying to rewrap, rewrap my head around it since I've been been back and trying to remember how to how to code after being offline for so long. Like, wait, what. How do I. How do I do this?

00:08:44

Kevin Triplett: So I feel like I'm just.

00:08:45

James Redenbaugh: Just getting back into it now.

00:08:47

Kevin Triplett: Re.

00:08:48

James Redenbaugh: Reopening them. The apps on my inner desktop.

00:08:53

Kevin Triplett: Yep, Yep. I. I've been coding also. And realizing how much AI is helping us and. And also obfuscating. I don't know exactly all the code that it creates, so I kind of have to trust it.

00:09:15

James Redenbaugh: But.

00:09:15

Kevin Triplett: But enough. Put enough guardrails on it.

00:09:19

James Redenbaugh: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I try to have people on my team that know more about coding than I do to look at. To look at what I'm creating with Claude. Yeah. But I know that even everybody these days is. Is facing the same challenge of how to trust these. These machines because pretty soon they're all, you know, they're going to be better than any of us, and they're already definitely faster than any of us. And I hope Fable comes back online soon because I've been grateful to have increasingly capable models to go back and check the work of previous models.

00:10:18

Kevin Triplett: Yes, yes, agreed. I've also been talking with Oliver with Guy Commons. He said that he met with you and Adam and some other folks about that ecosystem and how we see things kind of integrating. But, yeah, I'd like to start with the task force and explain what the. What this standards group is trying to do.

00:10:50

James Redenbaugh: Cool.

00:10:51

Kevin Triplett: And why I've gotten kind of excited about it. I don't know if you know someone named Ariel Fox. I met her in Brussels at Chaos, which is open source software group. And she made the comment, I'm sure you'll agree, that many programmers think, oh, yeah, UI ux, they can wait, we've got to get the tech built first. And she says, no, no, please, please don't think that way. And I was really. I was pleased to see that they were calling for UX task force. This point, it's a little bit late, but I think that now that the. The protocols are defined and being implemented, I think this is timely. So what the protocols do is. It's a. The way that we describe it is that it's the protocols that really should have been designed for the Internet, but they weren't because there's not a commercial incentive. What the protocols do is they help us to authenticate each other, prove personhood, and that we can make verifiable claims. And those claims can be almost anything. Diploma, license, skill, relationship, membership in a community. It's not blockchain, but it uses the same cryptography as blockchain. To so that when you receive a claim, you can make sure that it hasn't been altered, hasn't been modified. And then you can, and then you can check to see was it really issued by the issuer. So for instance, the diploma from Harvard, you can check with Harvard, did you issue this diploma? Did you issue this claim? And Harvard can respond back, yes. And that can all happen within seconds.

00:12:58

James Redenbaugh: Or.

00:13:01

Kevin Triplett: Because it's all with public keys and cryptography and digests and hashes and stuff like that. And then the other thing is the digital identities, which are self sovereign, they're not issued by any entity, so they can't be revoked. We create them. And the proof of personhood means that we have one digital id, but we can have multiple Personas, just like we have multiple identities, depending on if we're in a professional setting, if we're in a family setting, maybe a church or synagogue or mosque, or in our hobby or our social groups, we have different Personas that we present. So in that way, but we're still the same person. So in that way, the digital identity is mine, I don't have to reveal it, I can have a Persona. But that Persona, since it is tied cryptographically to my id, you can't discover who I am unless I want you to, but you can verify that I am a person. Maybe I live in this community, I have these skills, I'm over this age. But you're not going to find out my date of birth, my exact address, who I am, unless I want you to. So it's a verifiable anonymity. So it's a way for us to be safe with each other, that we know that we are talking to the person we're talking to. And with the verifiable relationships, if we have verifiable claims of relationships, that means that we can have our network with us. So instead of it being on LinkedIn and Facebook and Instagram and X, my network can be with me. If I'm a community organizer, I have my community network, all the membership, the roles and things like that, that I manage as an administrator. And they've put a lot of effort into this, into these standards, such that it's not just the digital part, it's also there's a social governance like Holo movement has its own governance for its community, how it wants to manage its members, its memberships, its alliances, that's all the social, human side. But the digital supports that. So the way I've been presenting it is that our digital life will mirror our social life rather than an artificial social structure being imposed upon us, like with Facebook or LinkedIn actually supporting us and the fact that we have cryptographic proof of relationship, my theory is that we can extend the Dunbar number well above 150. So this enables deliberative democracy. And that's my life. My mission in life is how can we get better democracy, better decision making.

00:15:58

James Redenbaugh: Yeah, yeah. It sounds like it could enable a new kind of voting, including like dynamic delegation where I could say, I trust you to make decisions in these domains and maybe 100 people say the same thing about you. And then if you're voting on something in a domain, I would want your vote to count more than mine. You know, if I don't carry the same kind of trust and expertise in that domain, maybe I carry something in another domain.

00:16:34

Kevin Triplett: Right.

00:16:34

James Redenbaugh: And that makes more sense to me than just basic, you know, binary democracy. Everybody votes on, on the thing because as we've seen, people just get manipulated.

00:16:48

Kevin Triplett: Right? Yeah. And we're not experts in everything. Politicians are not experts in everything. But, but, and this is kind of cool if you delegate to vote to me on the subject on domain, but you find out that that domain is important to you and you do want to cast your vote, you can take it back for that particular vote.

00:17:07

James Redenbaugh: Yeah.

00:17:09

Kevin Triplett: Or you think that you no longer trust me, you can take your vote back at any time, assign that delegation to somebody else that you trust. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. That's kind of what I wanted to go for. And we're talking with metagov. Apparently there's a lot of money coming into this. People care about democracy, Go figure.

00:17:33

James Redenbaugh: And so you don't know what you got until it's gone.

00:17:37

Kevin Triplett: Yeah, exactly. But going back to the task force, this working group that's pulling together these standards for this digital ID and verifiable credentials, they've been identified by the Linux foundation as. Oh, that's what we need for our kernel community to keep it secure so we don't get back doors secretly inserted into our, into our kernel. So they're hosting this, working this standards group, and they're hoping to bring it to the IETF this November to start the process of getting it actually standardized worldwide. But UX Task force is, it's, it needs to be frictionless to drive adoption, to help with adoption, because it's going to be management of keys, it's going.

00:18:40

James Redenbaugh: To be.

00:18:42

Kevin Triplett: Cryptography, it's got to be something that is easy for lay people to use. And yeah, okay, the early adopters, they can tolerate some friction. But we really need to get a good user experience. And for me, I think that's journey design. I think that's. How do people come into this new paradigm using the Internet?

00:19:12

James Redenbaugh: Probably story design as well. How are we communicating about why this is important?

00:19:19

Kevin Triplett: Yes, yes. I think it's going to need a campaign.

00:19:23

James Redenbaugh: Yeah.

00:19:25

Kevin Triplett: So that's kind of what I'm seeing. The high level.

00:19:29

James Redenbaugh: Awesome. Great. Well, I'm very interested. Sounds very interesting.

00:19:36

Kevin Triplett: Good, good, good. I'll forward you the information about how and when, how to get involved when the first meeting is. And I'm reaching out to Ariel Fox over in uk. She was the one that I heard in Brussels who is championing, you know, user experience. So I'll reach out to her as well. Let's see that. That's it. That's it for that, for that task force. Unless you want know anything else about it.

00:20:12

James Redenbaugh: No, sounds good. The best UX and UI that I create I do in collaboration with my, my two main design partners. One is in, in Bali, Munya. She lives in Bali, but she's Dutch Moroccan and I've been working with her for like eight years. And she's a great yin counterpart to my yang. She brings a wonderful feminine energy to our design and thinking outside the box and really awesome color awareness and pattern awareness. And then my guy, Sean, and in Ohio is a really. He works full time as a UI designer for another company, but we get him 20 hours a week and he's also on interfaces and super fast UI guy ux. So I love, you know, working in the space between the three of us because we all see things from different, different angles and do our best work there.

00:21:24

Kevin Triplett: Cool. I would love to connect. I forget what you said her name was, but Dush Moroccan. I'm working with a woman named Yasmine Rami I think is her last name. She's. Oh yeah, well, you know Yasmine.

00:21:43

James Redenbaugh: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:21:44

Kevin Triplett: Okay. Yeah, she's got her voyage app that she's designing, but I, I think that she's got UI already, but I'm sure that. Oh, cool, the two of them are connected already.

00:21:58

James Redenbaugh: Maybe, maybe not. Luna's been like very much in Bali for like seven years.

00:22:04

Kevin Triplett: Well, I'll mention it to Jasmine and if she wants to, I'll ask her to get in touch with you.

00:22:11

James Redenbaugh: Great, okay. Yeah, I'd be happy to make that connection.

00:22:14

Kevin Triplett: Yeah, I'm investing in her voyage app so she can migrate it to the web. Right now it's a mobile app only, which is Weird. It's like, oh, wow, you started with a mobile app.

00:22:25

James Redenbaugh: Yeah. That's funny.

00:22:26

Kevin Triplett: Usually it's the other way around where,.

00:22:30

James Redenbaugh: You know, we're trying to bring Holos to a mobile app now from a web app.

00:22:38

Kevin Triplett: I just learned. I just learned about Flutter. It's a Google Open. Open source project. It's platform agnostic, so you can. The problem is though, it bypasses all the OS niceties, so if there's anything level, you have to code it yourself or find a. Some sort of library or extension, but apparently makes it easy to be cross platform.

00:23:07

James Redenbaugh: Yeah. I'll send this to Yvonne, our full stack guy who's looking into applifying Holos. Now. He's using something called Expo. You heard of that?

00:23:23

Kevin Triplett: No. Expo.

00:23:24

James Redenbaugh: I think it's similar. And I think it. I don't know enough about this space to understand the differences, but I'll send you a link to this. It looks pretty cool and it looks like it does use iOS standards.

00:23:45

Kevin Triplett: Cool, thanks. Okay, got it. And I'll send you links to a set of links for the. It's called Trust over IP is the standards. Okay. Okay, cool. I feel. I feel good there. Holos. I. I'm going to work on my. My Holon, the project Weave Holon. I see somebody joined, which is great. And I'll try and get a few more people to join and work on the explanation of what it is.

00:24:28

James Redenbaugh: Great. As you're creating that, please let me know what you're wishing it would do because we can build features very fast and we want to do rapid iteration here. So, you know, we got the base. The base layer here, but whatever you're wanting, I bet we can move in that direction.

00:24:54

Kevin Triplett: Awesome. Okay, great. I'm tapped into the core now.

00:24:58

James Redenbaugh: Yeah, the. The thing I'm working on right now is email notifications so that people can get notified when there's updates in the app or if they have messages in their inbox, things like that.

00:25:12

Kevin Triplett: That is a gnarly topic. I would love to connect you with Tibet Sprague with Hilo, because they've been working with us for well over a year or, well, actually multiple years. So if, if, if and only if you. You want to get some lessons learned, they'd be a great resource.

00:25:35

James Redenbaugh: Yeah, I sent Tibet a message on Hilo, but he probably hasn't seen it because we don't have email notifications reminding people to check their messages. Also, we want to make messages easier to find in the app when people are on there.

00:25:56

Kevin Triplett: But yeah, that's also the issue with Hilo is having a nice, smooth messaging feature.

00:26:04

James Redenbaugh: Yeah. That's a big reason why we want to make it an app, so that we can do app notifications and. Yeah, because our. When you're on there, our messenger works super well. It's live. You can see people typing. You can see unreads, you can send. We're working on images and emojis and replies and things like that, but you have to go check it. You know, you have to remember to log in and see if there are messages there.

00:26:37

Kevin Triplett: Yeah, that's a good point. Speaking of which, what's your favorite messaging platform? Is it WhatsApp or do you prefer another one?

00:26:48

James Redenbaugh: WhatsApp is great. Yeah, I mean, it's a. It's the one I check the most. So. Okay. For lack of a better app, I mean, my favorite is Holos, of course.

00:27:00

Kevin Triplett: Of course. Yes.

00:27:02

James Redenbaugh: If it had notifications.

00:27:04

Kevin Triplett: Yes, yes, exactly. Okay,.

00:27:10

James Redenbaugh: So what's your favorite signal?

00:27:14

Kevin Triplett: Signal is my favorite, but I don't like that it can't be subgrouped, so you can't do, like WhatsApp, where you have subgroups within. Within a group. So, yeah, it's. So it gets kind of sprawly. I've got all these related sub groups now. You can do folders, but they limit the number of folders you can have. So, yeah, that's. And that's. Yeah, that's something that I'm not sure how to tame right now. I'm kind of wondering, Messaging is such an important feature. What's the best user experience for messaging? We've got so many examples. Telegram, Slack, Discord, WhatsApp, Signal.

00:28:11

James Redenbaugh: I wish it was all federated so that you could have platform agnostic group chats that could show up in holos or WhatsApp or Signal the same time.

00:28:25

Kevin Triplett: Now, that's what I'm hoping for. Like, in a few years, if we can get our networks with us, it doesn't really matter what app I use. I could use an app and you could use an app, but we're talking. It just doesn't matter what app we're using because our network is with us. It's not on Signal, it's not on Slack, it's not on LinkedIn.

00:28:46

James Redenbaugh: Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That'll. That feels like the future. And then also with content, you know, and courses and learning experiences and agreements, they can show up across many websites, but they're your own.

00:29:05

Kevin Triplett: Yes. And it's my terms, the way it's on my terms. And moderation also can be at the edge rather than it being centralized. I can choose what I want to see and what I don't want to see and I can change it in the mornings, I don't want to see such and such in the afternoons. Now I open up the gates.

00:29:28

James Redenbaugh: Yep. Yeah.

00:29:30

Kevin Triplett: So yeah, that's coming. And that's the kind of user experience that we're looking for with this trust over ip.

00:29:38

James Redenbaugh: Cool.

00:29:39

Kevin Triplett: Yeah. What are the things that we can do with it that we can't do today? That is impossible because the algorithms are centralized, we're fragmented. So it's really going to be thinking out of the box.

00:29:54

James Redenbaugh: Yeah. There's two side projects I am having conversations about. One I'm having a lot more conversation about which I've mentioned to you is the pattern language, the digital pattern language library.

00:30:14

Kevin Triplett: Where I want that. Yes.

00:30:16

James Redenbaugh: Yeah, I'd love to. To create a platform where we can collaborate and contribute to an assemblage of value aligned digital patterns, templates, recipes, flows and also identify anti patterns that are destructive consciously and subconsciously or that are not, that are life taking instead of life giving on, on every scale like Christopher Alexander's pattern language, we would look at building elements on the micro and then also like village and town and bioregion scale. We can look at interface level things, what's really generative and ethical and beautiful in micro interactions and then also platform scale and network scale. How should we be holding these things and what, what hasn't worked for life in the past? Can we name these things and make resources around them? So that feels like some kind of hopefully new medium that transcends and includes a wiki and I'd like for it to be as collaborative as possible. The other desire that I'm holding that I've held for a long time but rarely speak about because it feels big and bold and, and I don't know how to, how to do it but I'd love to be in, involved in it. If I see it would be like some kind of think, think tank, creative tank action group whose task it is to really dream into the future of design and get ahead of the ball as much as possible. So to really sit with what you know, what trends can we forecast and identify as inevitable, what might devices look like 10 years from now? And of course we won't know for certain. But can we lay the groundwork out ahead of the game to start thinking about how should we designed for that world so you know, how, how could we envision a world where all of our data is Our own, you know, where websites are quite different from today's and can we in, in a less like practical and product oriented way and more visionary, even science fictiony way, dream into those futures so when we get there, we already have thinking and resources assembled for how to think about that and how to address potential pitfalls and hurdles that will inevitably come up as we breach those realms.

00:33:31

Kevin Triplett: Well, what comes to mind is Stafford Beer's viable systems model where there is a group of people who are focused on that. That's what they do, they're looking down the road, what are the risks and the opportunities. So yeah, yeah, definitely. And what that's pointing to is that not everyone has to do that, but there needs to be a group that's doing that and then communicating back to the larger organism.

00:34:00

James Redenbaugh: Yeah, yeah, there needs to be lots of, lots of different groups. I was talking with Ian Nathan. Did you meet him at Holos? At Hollow Movement? Yeah, he's a neat guy. He used to be a Facebook developer and now he's run working with Symbiosis, interesting startup in Switzerland and Yeah, some, somebody.

00:34:31

Kevin Triplett: Yeah, yeah, I, I talked with them.

00:34:33

James Redenbaugh: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:34:34

Kevin Triplett: What they're doing. I didn't know Ian was with them.

00:34:37

James Redenbaugh: Huh. And we were talking about how feels like there's a new kind of company forming where it's almost like we're already working in this, this company that exists that nobody founded, you know, and there's dynamic teams assembling that are like, oh, I'll take on this. And there's no like top down model, but it's like a village, you know, it's like the villagers have found themselves in the valley and it's like, oh, I'll go collect wood.

00:35:13

Kevin Triplett: Yeah. Instead of organization, I call it an organism.

00:35:17

James Redenbaugh: Yeah, yeah. It's really.

00:35:21

Kevin Triplett: But, but. And this is where I want to talk about Holocaust. I also want to go back to what you're talking about, but this is the agreements. How we we to do that? We need to be in agreement. We need to understand where we're delivering, where we're working on, who's doing what, what's.

00:35:36

James Redenbaugh: Yeah. And we need to develop a shared language of agreement, you know, and, and that needs to be evolving so that we, you know, that the contracts that serve corporate world aren't going to serve us.

00:35:54

Kevin Triplett: This sounds like the pattern language. And I still want to go back to what you're on. I want to go back to your thread, but I do want to connect you with someone who if you don't already have a Project. I have a project for you. Someone who's already coding. Someone's already got it built.

00:36:13

James Redenbaugh: Cool.

00:36:15

Kevin Triplett: Yeah, for the patterns and the recipes.

00:36:18

James Redenbaugh: Awesome.

00:36:19

Kevin Triplett: Unless you've already got somebody on it.

00:36:21

James Redenbaugh: I've got some groundwork, but I haven't. It's mostly in conversational space right now.

00:36:27

Kevin Triplett: Okay, well, I'll get him connected with you. And he's a bit, he's a bit, he's. How can I say? You, you'll, you'll, you'll, you'll get a feel for him. But I want you to be kind of open minded because he's, he's definitely. Gosh, I, I don't want to say he's Marxist because he, he's actually read Marx. A lot of people who claim to be Marxists or who are blamed as being Marxists, they haven't read Marx. So he understands the theories of what it means to be in a social system, and that's what he's going for. But he's also a brilliant programmer. He's using Lisp. And I didn't realize Lisp had all these wonderful features that were a meta. There's a meta code for Lisp where Lisp can actually write itself.

00:37:30

James Redenbaugh: Wow.

00:37:30

Kevin Triplett: Yeah. So anyway, he's brilliant and he's been working on this for a number of years. But I'll connect him with you. And are you on signal, by the way?

00:37:41

James Redenbaugh: Yeah, I am.

00:37:42

Kevin Triplett: Okay. Okay, I'll connect you with him there.

00:37:46

James Redenbaugh: Great. Yeah. Cool.

00:37:48

Kevin Triplett: Anyway, let's go back to the thread where I went down that little rabbit hole.

00:37:54

James Redenbaugh: Yeah. It's like in this village there needs to be groups that are going after the mammoths, you know, and getting food for the village. And there needs to be groups that are building the village and there needs to be like the shamans that are going out to the mountaintop and, you know, like envisioning the future and accessing the, the past. And we need all of that in this, in this organism. And ideally they're all inter and interconnected and learning from each other and developing new languages of possibility, of agreement, of offers and, you know, and requests of, of needs and needs and offers. Yeah.

00:38:47

Kevin Triplett: And there needs to be an economy of care because the people who are caring for the newcomers, the relationships, they need to be valued as well. Okay, I'm with you there.

00:39:03

James Redenbaugh: Cool. And like you were saying, the digital should be an authentic mirroring of the real. We also need these real villages.

00:39:18

Kevin Triplett: Yes.

00:39:18

James Redenbaugh: You know, and people like literally building houses and structures and schools and, and gathering places and temples and playgrounds. Yeah, things like that.

00:39:34

Kevin Triplett: And I don't know if you met Tree Willard in, in your, in your journeys, but she's doing a podcast called Rewoven and it's about intentional communities that people tend to form intentional communities, understanding that we can make decisions together and be beautiful. And then they find out the hard truth is that there's opinions and there's trauma and shadows and there needs to be clear ways of making decisions together and for repairing rupture. And so she, she's doing a podcast where she goes into intentional communities and remakes them. Kind of like, kind of like the people that go into the hoarder houses or the, the tear down houses and, and helps to like restructure somebody's life. So it's beautiful. More beautiful. So she's doing that with the intentional communities, making them functional and healthy again.

00:40:34

James Redenbaugh: Awesome. Yeah. Wow. Super cool.

00:40:37

Kevin Triplett: So there's, there's that too. There's, you know, there's a lot of, lot of work that different people play part of.

00:40:48

James Redenbaugh: Yeah, beautiful weaving. Yeah, good weave metaphor.

00:40:54

Kevin Triplett: Yeah, there you go. And, and one, one more thing. Somebody. We're also. There's a group that's looking at Landing is. They call it. Landing is the new funding. So when we raise funds, we could be raising funds for buying land and structures and building out infrastructure so that people can live and build on the land, whether it's manufacturing, tech, food, what have you. Because that way it keeps everything circular. Instead of the, instead of the funding flowing down to landlords and infrastructure and being lost, you can actually stay within the community as long as possible.

00:41:41

James Redenbaugh: Yeah. Wow. I love it. Yeah. Have you heard of a lolly?

00:41:48

Kevin Triplett: No. No.

00:41:50

James Redenbaugh: Innovative Living and Learning Institute and Sebastopol, California. They've. They're a beautiful ecosystem of interconnected projects that are based on. They're super land based. They're very indigenously rooted and they do all kinds of experiences and experiments leaning into, you know, brighter futures, new ways of being together, new ways of being together with land. But they're, they're a client of mine. They're super integral, evolutionary and, and they've got this really cool center there that they're, they're building sweet stuff on.

00:42:46

Kevin Triplett: Beautiful. I'm looking them up now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, this sounds great. I'll make sure that the folks that are doing the landings, the new funding, make sure they're connected to them.

00:43:00

James Redenbaugh: Awesome. Great.

00:43:06

Kevin Triplett: My question is for the, I know that for the collaborative commerce, what's the status there on that project that came out of the, The Thing with. I forget who the name of the.

00:43:21

James Redenbaugh: Michael Sean.

00:43:22

Kevin Triplett: Yeah, Michael Sean.

00:43:25

James Redenbaugh: You mean the, our engine for good?

00:43:28

Kevin Triplett: I think so. I think so. There was something led by a scientist. I forgot the scientist's name.

00:43:37

James Redenbaugh: David Sloan Wilson.

00:43:39

Kevin Triplett: That's him. Yes. David Sloan Wilson. Yeah.

00:43:41

James Redenbaugh: Yeah. I want to follow up with David and Jeff and Michael Sean on what's, what's come out of their, their track since their. David, we built the pro social website as well. That's his, his organization.

00:44:02

Kevin Triplett: Oh really?

00:44:03

James Redenbaugh: Yeah, they're doing really cool work.

00:44:06

Kevin Triplett: Yeah.

00:44:07

James Redenbaugh: And their, their director of operations is actually now basically becoming our director of operations. We've, we've hired her part time. She's awesome. And, And we're trying to make holos more and more. Collaborative commerce compatible where we want to make visible the funds that are flowing into the platform and, and they're all getting directed to, to real projects on holos and Purpose Earth projects. And so there's a lot of, a lot of conversation happening in this space and not plugged into it all.

00:45:03

Kevin Triplett: Okay.

00:45:07

James Redenbaugh: But the one thing we just had a meeting about before this is we're starting, we're going to launch the learning management system soon and the first course we're doing is this beautiful ancestors course with these indigenous leaders from around the world and all the funds from that will support the, the collaborative commerce platform and, and the leaders themselves who are, who were Purpose Earth grant recipients. So it's very. Coming full circle there already and super cool. So yeah, definitely excited to get more of the learning happening on the platform because it's another reason to, you know, actually be on there. And a lot of the features we've built are great for community learning and connecting with others that you're in a learning group. And then we're hopefully hopeful that that translates into action as well because learning is, you know, should be perpetual, perpetual and, and endless. And it's very applicable to action.

00:46:20

Kevin Triplett: Yeah. Cool. There's two things that come up for me when you said, when you said all that. One is emergent comments came out of Rebel Wisdom's sense making courses. And so when a cohort goes through a learning process together, that's a nice little node of people who already have relationship with each other. And so it's, it's, it's one way to extend that is to kind of protect that and bring it, bring that into a community as, as, as a node. And then that node kind of opens up and makes new, new relationships with other people and then it reforms into other nodes. That's one Thing.

00:47:01

James Redenbaugh: Yeah.

00:47:02

Kevin Triplett: And then the other one is, oh, my gosh, I need to. I need to connect more deeply with what's going on with Pro Social world and Michael Shawn. Because I was talking with Sid Griffith, Harvey about her flow funding with Kinship Earth. We realized that the trust protocols will help them to extend what they're doing in a more secure, confident way so that more funds can flow. Because it's a little better than a blockchain where credentials are authorized and tokens are given. It doesn't need to be publicly discoverable, so it can be a little more secure and private, yet secure and verifiable. There is application for blockchain and tokens, but for a lot of the flow funding, it's just relationships and attestations and claims and verification and proof and things like that. So she's real excited about working with the new protocols. And what I'm seeing is that from what you're saying, having the agreements, having the collaboration and the value flow is important as well. So this is one of the components I'm looking for to bring into this integration of an organism, because the organism needs to be in agreement about how value is flowing so that there's not adverse asymmetry, that everything's in cooperation, but for different roles and specialization. But everyone knows what. How they're. How they're getting fed and how their waste is being used as food for somebody else. It's. It's really a symbiotic thing that apparently we need to have it in writing.

00:49:13

James Redenbaugh: It's.

00:49:13

Kevin Triplett: We don't have telepathy yet.

00:49:15

James Redenbaugh: Not yet. Well, we're not.

00:49:19

Kevin Triplett: We're working on it.

00:49:20

James Redenbaugh: Await awake to it. Enough yet?

00:49:23

Kevin Triplett: Yeah. So this. This is super exciting. I. I want to honor our time and say that. That, wow, there's so many. So many things to pursue here. But I'll. I'll definitely get you connected into the UX Tax Task force. I'll reach out to Michael Shawn and. And do the same thing we did here. And then I'm working on that integration. I. I want to try and help with the weaving and integration. I don't want to define or specify anything, but I want to help with that process of how do we weave this together as a fabric?

00:50:04

James Redenbaugh: Great. Sounds good. Yeah. Awesome. Let's definitely continue the conversation.

00:50:10

Kevin Triplett: Yeah.

00:50:13

James Redenbaugh: My AIs will leave an artifact from this call and can be helpful because it identifies the different topics that we touched on.

00:50:23

Kevin Triplett: Yes, yes. I'm trying to do the same on my side. Get my AIs to help me organize my life.

00:50:30

James Redenbaugh: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm happy to show you what. What mine does now. I'm actually. It's been working as a. As it is now for about a year, and I'm going to be rethinking it and turning it into more of an app that's integrated into more of my. More of my tools.

00:50:48

Kevin Triplett: Good, good. Is this an extension of your project management application? Yeah.

00:50:55

James Redenbaugh: Yep. Yeah.

00:50:56

Kevin Triplett: Good. Are you. Are you opening it up to Alpha or Beta users?

00:51:02

James Redenbaugh: Not yet. You know, because it's. It's hodgepodge right now. Understand, you know, strings and pulleys.

00:51:11

Kevin Triplett: Yep.

00:51:13

James Redenbaugh: And we're. We're using ClickUp in the meantime for. For delegation and task tracking and. And our back end is airtable right now, which isn't permanent, but it works for the meantime, so Alpha may be early 2027 kind of thing.

00:51:38

Kevin Triplett: Okay. Okay. Very good. I'll hodgepodge my own system here to get me along.

00:51:44

James Redenbaugh: Mandate. Yeah. Great. Well, always great to talk to you, Kevin.

00:51:51

Kevin Triplett: Likewise.

00:51:52

James Redenbaugh: Good luck on your journey. Drive safe and have a wonderful time in Taos.

00:51:56

Kevin Triplett: Thank you. And congratulations again on the honeymoon and. And back to business.

00:52:01

James Redenbaugh: Thank you. Thanks so much. I'll see you soon.

00:52:04

Kevin Triplett: Big hugs. Bye. Bye.