00:00:00

Lauren & Rob: Stay on that one.

00:00:02

James Redenbaugh: This meeting is being recorded.

00:00:05

Lauren & Rob: Isn't James just the best? Love, James. I love James. I love working with James. Everything he's done has been so helpful. So relaxed, too. I find him very calming. It's so affirming and expanding to work with him. I agree. I'm so glad he's coming to hollyhock. Me too. I wonder if he's ever gonna get this. I wonder how he'll feel when he recognizes that we know this is being recorded and we're saying these things to make him feel good. When he reads the recording or gets his transcript, he's gonna smile. He's gonna love it. This is going to happen. Hi, James. Okay, I'm gonna keep messing around over here.

00:01:04

James Redenbaugh: Okay.

00:01:04

Lauren & Rob: While we. You need some.

00:03:12

James Redenbaugh: Hi, there. Good morning. Sorry, I lost track of time.

00:03:18

Lauren & Rob: That's okay. We've been all right bustling about in the copy, so.

00:03:24

James Redenbaugh: Cool.

00:03:25

Lauren & Rob: Yeah. Yeah.

00:03:26

James Redenbaugh: How's it going in there?

00:03:28

Lauren & Rob: It's so. James, your writing is so helpful. Like, having you distill things down has just catapulted us into more clarity. So it's been a really good spark. Yeah.

00:03:38

James Redenbaugh: Awesome. Thank you. Awesome. Great. How are you this morning? I'm pretty good. Monday. Monday. After working through the weekend. A good combination of being Monday and not having a weekend. But it's okay. I didn't fully work through the weekend, so.

00:04:03

Lauren & Rob: And let's. Let's acknowledge that before your weekend, you were traveling in amazing places.

00:04:09

James Redenbaugh: Yeah. Yeah. So I cannot complain. Yeah. How are you guys? He's celebrate a birthday. Cute flags.

00:04:19

Lauren & Rob: No, those are left over from actually, like, probably almost two years ago now. Like, my kids and I made them and t them up and then I. I just like them. And so I was like, I'm not gonna take them down.

00:04:31

James Redenbaugh: They're great. I love how they're each unique.

00:04:33

Lauren & Rob: We made the flags by hand by just making stuff on paper and then folding it over. Yeah.

00:04:40

James Redenbaugh: Darling.

00:04:41

Lauren & Rob: This is a very artistic household. James, this, like, I just show you. Oh. Yesterday. I think I should bring James to that versus the other way around. Okay. I'm not sure if you're going to be able to see this very well. So this is what we worked on last night. You can see that.

00:05:07

James Redenbaugh: Wow. Oh, my God.

00:05:10

Lauren & Rob: Play salad with, like, salad dressing and cherry tomatoes and different colored leaves and avocado and carrot slices.

00:05:25

James Redenbaugh: Amazing. Look at this. My kids are holy. Look at that watermelon.

00:05:30

Lauren & Rob: Look at the watermelon.

00:05:34

James Redenbaugh: Wow.

00:05:35

Lauren & Rob: What? Ridiculous. So my kids are. And so I did that when I was Little. So were all collaborating on making miniature food. It's very.

00:05:49

James Redenbaugh: You don't even need me. Have them make the website.

00:05:53

Lauren & Rob: Not true. Maybe someday. Well, we had great conversations with the core group yesterday. We spoke to everybody yesterday and everybody's a yes. There are eight of us in the core ring who are a yes. And now we pivot into our next ring of exploration. Already started. That's not a total start from scratch. So just. That's kind of the update for you is we're. We'll keep updating you with the specifics on that. And then we've been in the copy and like, before we go there, can I just say maybe like, what, if anything, do you need from us in order to extend a more firm invitation to Emily or to continue the conversation to say, you know, here's where we're at, we'd love to have you there. This would, this is what that would involve or include. Do you need anything from us there?

00:06:49

Lauren & Rob: We hop on together, the four of us, or the two of us with her or at some point.

00:06:55

James Redenbaugh: I think it'd be awesome for you guys to meet. I think she'll be there. If I tell her it's. It's gonna be, it's gonna be great. She trusts me on things like that. But I think it'd be great to meet her and, you know, give her a, a better sense of what it is and you know, if there's anything that she can prepare or think about in anticipation of it and give you guys a sense of her as well.

00:07:29

Lauren & Rob: Yeah. So part of our intention is to be spending, you know, the months of April and May connecting with the folks who are going to be coming and doing some intentional weaving, both like with us, but also across the others who are going to be coming. So we can certainly be. That will certainly be part of the process. We can be intentional about sequencing that maybe at a first connect that's just a little more relational and then a second that's more in the co creative realm. What could she do or prepare? What does she want to contribute, if anything? That kind of thing.

00:08:04

James Redenbaugh: Cool.

00:08:04

Lauren & Rob: Great.

00:08:05

James Redenbaugh: Awesome. As I'm prototyping this place between us tool, I wonder if you were to have, say, an airtable. Have you ever used airtable? It's basically Google Docs with a little more capability and power. It's a beautiful tool, really easy to use, but you know, it can essentially function as a spreadsheet. But we could also use Google Docs and if you were to Just kind of have that. As your CRM isn't the right word, but your list of people, we could take that, bring that into a webflow site and start seeing them together in more interesting ways. And then as you update, you know, any information about them, like here's where they are in the world, here's their field of work, here's who in the circle they're connected to, here's the orgs on the outside that they're connected to.

00:09:23

James Redenbaugh: We can start to play with taking that data and turning it into individuals in this radial diagram to start to see that even before we get to the event.

00:09:34

Lauren & Rob: So that's actually what we've been pending all along is like how do we weave a sense of connection before we get in room? So yes, short answer.

00:09:47

James Redenbaugh: Cool.

00:09:49

Lauren & Rob: Where we need to put info as we gather it and if there's anything else you need from us. Would that function as like a standalone page, James, or is that like, is it a backend thing that then displays?

00:10:01

James Redenbaugh: We could build it on your tri for site if you wanted. And so your interface would just be updating this airtable, that's your backend, which you can also share with anyone you know or like share a form with people. Like fill this out and then that becomes an item.

00:10:18

Lauren & Rob: Oh yeah.

00:10:18

James Redenbaugh: And then our system automatically takes that and feeds it into a more dynamic front end display.

00:10:28

Lauren & Rob: Great. Amazing. And then is the front end what the space between. That's what you're kind of figure.

00:10:34

James Redenbaugh: Yeah, yeah. And so I would just put a, an iteration of that on. On your own website.

00:10:43

Lauren & Rob: Okay. Super cool. Yes, yes, please. Well, I'll just say what was probably obvious yesterday, like if it fits like in your flow to have this convening be a pilot for space between. That would feel totally amazing and right to me. But I just don't know what that means for you and you know.

00:11:09

James Redenbaugh: Yeah, I mean it feels to me like that's what's being asked. The space between to me is really the space between. It's something that I notice in the space between people in gatherings and in the space between gatherings. And it's like this thing that. That wants to become that I'm connected to, but it's not really mine. I just happen to have the tools available to me now to put it together. So it's really. I want it to be super open and something that can be in a constant state of becoming and branching as well. It's okay if there's many different expressions of it. If the one for this gathering becomes something that's different from what suits. A different gathering.

00:12:23

Lauren & Rob: Yeah. Okay, great. So we want to focus our attention for the next 45 minutes. What's going to be most useful for you? I think one of our questions as we continue iterating with language and stuff like that is how do we do that in a way that's. That doesn't trip you up? Or like. Because what Lauren's done is made a copy of your. Maybe that's not helpful. Of your website v05, so that we could edit and fool around with a bunch of stuff and then maybe what we'll do is I just shared it with you, but I'm happy to just not have versions. I realize that's annoying, but I'm just sharing it with you because that's simple right now.

00:13:09

James Redenbaugh: Yeah. Where was that shirt?

00:13:12

Lauren & Rob: I just shared it with you this moment and in Iris email.

00:13:19

James Redenbaugh: Cool.

00:13:22

Lauren & Rob: And so it's working. Draft. You know, we've just been scribbling and moving stuff around and.

00:13:29

James Redenbaugh: Yeah. Yeah. Why don't we hop in there together and have a look and start with that.

00:13:38

Lauren & Rob: We're definitely, James, acknowledging that we're in this. We're in the branching phase based on what you distilled. So you did like. We did a blot. You did a control converge and we did another blot. And it's helping us to reconverge. So. And when I write stuff and. And imagine stuff, I don't delete it as I go because I'm kind of trying to proliferate before I kill the darlings. So there's. There's, you know, there's stuff here. There's more there than we intend to use. Yeah. And it's there for that reason. Maybe we should highlight things that we want to. So. So Rob's question, I think, is more of a process question where we want to make sure that our timing for messing around and editing and the place we put what we think is great is aligned.

00:14:28

James Redenbaugh: Yeah. So this week I want to take from here, you know, not necessarily everything that ends up on here, and start putting it onto a web page, which I'm thinking of being a kind of open canvas at this point. And. And now I'm thinking of combining that with. In some place on the site, the interface that we just talked about where we can start to see these. These people and maybe projects as well, in some kind of orbit. And I'd like to see them moving, you know, so it's not like. That's like Lauren and Robert are up here and so, you know, left and right. But it's like, no, it's, you know, there's no. There's center, you know, there's geometry, but it's not so cool. Yeah.

00:15:32

Lauren & Rob: Like, Muse is like, aligned and then like, a lot of things take care of themselves. It's really great.

00:15:41

James Redenbaugh: Yeah.

00:15:41

Lauren & Rob: I mean, if there's just like a Hollyhock 2025, you know, page, like, I think that would serve that purpose. Maybe a moment for me to just flag what is a gentle hesitancy that I feel about empathy, person identities too much? Because I think that there's a lot of, like, assessing the value and. And relative interest of an entity by saying, well, what color are the people who are running it and how much cred and rank and, you know, clout do they have? And like, I just am a little bit wary of making it too person about people while at the same time it's about a. It's about people. It's about relational coming together. But I feel like it's more about the trans contextual weaving between the people than making it like, is there a sexy name on this project?

00:16:39

Lauren & Rob: Like, and I don't want to necessarily control like over index on that, but I even said to Rob, like, do we want bios about ourselves? Like, do we want that on the site to begin with? Because it's not really, like, yes, we're birthing something, but like, it's so much more and beyond and. Or do, like, do we want photos or we do we want drawings? Like, what are the ways that we could blur the temptation of like, I don't know. What's coming up to me now is like, what if the emphasis were on the relationship between the things rather than the things? So for example, the bio of like, the about page is about how the relationships formed this thing and Right.

00:17:21

Lauren & Rob: And similarly, you know, like, the, you know, if I have like you and Darren, it's like friendship, mutual experience and care about the educational realm, human development. Like, what are the things that fit in the relational space? Not who are the people that are the nodes? And I don't know that there's a. Or it's both. Yeah. Thank you. I don't want to belabor this too much. So just to say, like, it could be that whatever the who page for the Gathering in Hollyhock isn't public facing. It has a little password on it. So that could. I don't. But for the who for the people, just that is public facing on Trephora. Like, I wonder if I. Sometimes I have the experience of like the attention economy and social media, like exacerbating a.

00:18:08

Lauren & Rob: A kind of primate competitive lens in me where I go to a website and I'm like, oh, those people are better than me. Or I have less to offer and they have more to offer. There's like a zero sum scarcity voice that can actually get activated by the way that people expertise. Yeah. The way that people represent themselves. And so I wonder like, if I landed on our site and it didn't. It didn't talk about where went to school or where we work or how amazing were. It was more like a human who's interested in this and does this kind of work. And together with a human it's like, what if it was the story, like you're saying, of the people's interests and passions that came together to reveal something.

00:18:50

Lauren & Rob: And maybe you have to click further to be like, well, who is that person? But I don't know. I'm just trying to. And James, it's okay if none of this, if this doesn't quite all fit into V05. I just don't want to lose it as a value.

00:19:04

James Redenbaugh: Yeah, no, totally. I. And I think that there's going to be a way to illustrate and bring focus to that. That weaving in the space between. Even if for, you know, for Hollyhock, your intention is to. Is to weave relationship between these people. And we need people and. And maybe faces and names to do that. The intention of the Trifor homepage is different and we could even, you know, take the same diagram, whatever. We end up with Hollyhock and have a version on the homepage that doesn't have faces and names, maybe just has squiggles and has more of a focus on the relationship thing. But for. So we don't have to have two conversations at once for too long. But in the relationship diagram, I'm imagining it would be.

00:20:22

Lauren & Rob: It would be, huh, for Hollyhock or for Pumping.

00:20:26

James Redenbaugh: For Hollyhock. It would be swell if you could. If each of these eight people could pick a color and share a picture of themselves, or you can pull one online and we could even run it through an AI that has it drawn in a creative way. But it'd be neat if they could pick a color and then also name in some way and give some attribute to who they're connected to. You know, like I was in Pete's cohort and I've worked with Rebecca for a long time and, you know, those could become aligned, you know, and we can give those a color. You know, it can be a creative decision. It doesn't have to mean anything scientific, but we can start to see, you know, lines and circles being drawn to start to point. I love that, towards the.

00:21:31

James Redenbaugh: The, you know, the reality of relational richness, you know, and the map isn't meant to be the. The territory, but we want to start to illustrate that something is there. And. And then similarly, on the homepage, we. We really. We want to start to illustrate that. Yeah, that something is there. And in a more creative and abstract way, diagram. These are the kinds of people we want to bring together. These are the kinds of projects we want together, want to bring together. And these are the kinds of relationships we want to weave between it all without needing to be like, Forbes wrote this article about us, and we're partnering with Mercedes on the screen initiative or whatever.

00:22:26

Lauren & Rob: Read my bio. You basically just hear a list of companies I've worked at, schools I've attended, and other influential people that I'm close to.

00:22:33

James Redenbaugh: Like, yeah, follow me on LinkedIn and Medium.

00:22:38

Lauren & Rob: Yeah, there's a. There's a big vein here of subverting a kind of story of value that's a colonized one of kind of a capitalist way we understand ourselves and understand relationships. That's a really big part of the sensibility for me, how I would tie that up. It's like, let's keep undoing some of that in the way we present ourselves. Specifically, like a call towards horizontality, still with differentiation, but horizontality versus status and symbols of status.

00:23:15

James Redenbaugh: Oh, yeah. Well, let's dig into this con. Yeah, go ahead.

00:23:23

Lauren & Rob: Content for bios will experiment with that kind of a focus. Like, we'll play around with instead of listing our schools and companies we've worked for, like, what we care about, how we like to be. Like, it's more of that kind of content. And it sounds like then the treatment of the people page or the whatever is going to have room to be dynamic. So there might be the two identities of us two, and then there's room to tag in a third and then a fourth and then a fifth as people indicate that they feel that they're a part of what we're up to. Like a board member or, you know, is that fair, James? Like. Like the way we would do it for Hollyhock. Okay, great.

00:24:11

James Redenbaugh: Yeah. Why not?

00:24:12

Lauren & Rob: Really? Great. Cool. I'll just say, like, I think your copy is very close, which is why it's been so helpful for us to riff. And then in terms of what you Gave us on the page, like the website outline. I think we probably have some questions about how that comes into reality, but it makes sense. I think maybe my questions are all around like, if we're doing something a little more non linear, is all of this needed? Or how does it get presented? But that's kind of. Those are kind of how questions and maybe for the next version. And then I thought the creative brief was also right on. So that's my like in summary.

00:24:59

James Redenbaugh: Yeah, great. Yeah. Maybe let's. Let's look at some of this together.

00:25:14

Lauren & Rob: And maybe by way of tying some of those things. I noticed I was just having this image, James, of like the. The trifera as a drawing. Right. So there's a bloom. There's the three petals that represent the three domains. There's a sort of stem and then an underground representing the kind of more mycelial aspects. When. When you scroll down to where did we put some. The. Where did you put this? Yeah. So under introduction, there are a couple of statements there that are like, I've got highlighted right now. For example, under introduction, try for exists to enable. Like that could float somewhere near the bloom. Then to do this triphora engages upstream gaps. So like somewhere down the stem. Can I just. Can I do a transition move?

00:26:17

Lauren & Rob: So I hear you really beautifully capturing the logic flow of our highest aim down to our functional depictions visually as the. The plant, which is actually new to me, but I really like it. But what I feel you saying to James is like, we have been trying to clarify that flow based on what you wrote and in some cases you wrote something that seemed to us like, oh, it's actually further down than where you've put it. We think something else goes there. Is that okay? Yep, it's great. And I guess we might. Maybe what would be helpful is to indicate what's coming up for me right now visually of like, this would be the bloom and this would be like maybe stem. These are the petals just for.

00:27:16

James Redenbaugh: I don't. Yeah.

00:27:17

Lauren & Rob: I obviously leave it to your creative genius to try and figure out how text and image relate. But then our activity, like so much of this can be the. I see the underground. Right. Like we're building bonds between people and initiatives. We're amplifying stories of value. We convert less accessible forms of resources. Like that's all the under the dirt kind of. Anyway that was just coming up and felt important to include. Yeah. And I. Yeah. So maybe would it be helpful, James, to go through the copy from the top or what would serve you? Is it Important that you hear us narrate some changes or do you just want us to keep working and then let you know when we're like, we're happy with this?

00:28:15

James Redenbaugh: Yeah, I don't think you need to. To tell me all the changes. I more just want to tune in to where you're coming from and what's exciting you. And I feel like I'm getting a sense of that. And yeah, I think we're all just looking together at the copy right now and seeing what. What's coming up. So these. The trifora exists for Trifora.

00:28:58

Lauren & Rob: Yeah. Sentence. There a metabolic bridge in the HERO section. And what that brought up for us was like, oh, we're not. Yeah, we get it. But the bridging that is a verb and not a noun felt more true to us was one thing. So then all the stuff below is how we're kind of massaging that. But the other thing that came up was, oh, is this a statement or is it a question? Like, is there a question in the hero section that's like animating question? So that's what we've been there. Yeah. And what follows in that hero section is us experimenting with. Yeah. What might we put there then in the next section where you had introduction. We.

00:29:51

Lauren & Rob: That was sort of helping us to try to clarify, like, why we exist, what we do, and like, how that then comes down into the three domains and what descriptive phrases we want to make sure are included there. So we're still working on it, but I think we're getting happier with this one here that I just highlighted as, like, that kind of is the North Star statement. And then the next one is getting closer to, like, how we do that. And then the three domains is kind of like, well, where and specifically what. Yeah, where with whom. Yeah. And those aren't yet done for us. Like, we like your. We both like your language. We're just noticing where a phrase or a word feels like it doesn't quite fit what that inspires. And we're trying to massage those. So those.

00:30:50

Lauren & Rob: And then the activity section is new. Inspired by what you wrote. Like, okay, but so what are we doing was. Was getting clarified too. I don't think that's done either, but we're getting closer. So there's a kind of why, what, where with whom and then how.

00:31:15

James Redenbaugh: Which is the how the activity.

00:31:19

Lauren & Rob: Our activity. Yeah, I think is starting to, like, bridge into some more of the how.

00:31:33

James Redenbaugh: Cool.

00:31:34

Lauren & Rob: And what that doesn't have in it is like, we actually want to create offerings and Experiences. I know. Nice. Yeah, I know.

00:31:45

James Redenbaugh: You can also think about what. What might. You know, what can be packed into smaller packets and then expand. There's this thing called Nutshells, which I love to use sometimes. And so I can find this. One sec. A brand like Nutshell. If you call your product Nutshell. It's really annoying because it never comes up if you just Google it. But I'll show you where we've used this.

00:33:07

Lauren & Rob: Ridiculous things come through. What happens if you just say yes? Then, I don't know. Bad things happen. They get you.

00:33:25

James Redenbaugh: We gotta go to the back end of something to find this. All right. Can I share my screen? Do you guys know Lehman Pascal?

00:34:14

Lauren & Rob: A little bit.

00:34:17

James Redenbaugh: He wrote this long essay on this website and we broke it down into.

00:34:24

Lauren & Rob: That is so cool.

00:34:25

James Redenbaugh: These. These tabs. And then we use this. This thing called Nutshell to kind of expand.

00:34:36

Lauren & Rob: That's so great.

00:34:37

James Redenbaugh: The lingo that he's using. So it doesn't. So it doesn't feel like a giant. And it's already a large essay, but we can share links in there and just kind of a larger description and things like that. And so it could be helpful when thinking about your copy, not needing to say everything at once or to say something in a pithy way, but then have something that opens up either on a single word, like, what are the three domains that they're referring to? Or just a little arrow that expands a section with more context. Things like that.

00:35:22

Lauren & Rob: Or this just gets us around. Or challenges with language to be like, we want to say this, but people will misinterpret or will, you know, misconstrue that and just have it be like, no. This is what we mean by this. Yeah. That's so nice, man. And I can. Amazing. I can imagine doing that in the. Yeah. Artistic way that's congruent with the brand. Yeah, yeah. So amazing. That's so helpful to know. So great. Because we can. That then we can think about that now that you've made us aware to write in that way and indicate that.

00:35:55

James Redenbaugh: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can just highlight something and, you know, add in a comment. You know, can this become a nutshell or. Or open up in some cool way.

00:36:06

Lauren & Rob: Okay, great. We'll try not to make every three phrases be footnote.

00:36:13

James Redenbaugh: Yeah, yeah.

00:36:14

Lauren & Rob: We have nutshells of nutshells.

00:36:16

James Redenbaugh: Yeah, I think so, but I don't know if I would advise it.

00:36:21

Lauren & Rob: I'm just kidding.

00:36:25

James Redenbaugh: I'm working on a website for a regenerative architecture project that has a Lingo language filter. So you can translate the site into different languages, but you can also have all the copy be, you know, plain English or if you want all the regenerative language, you can turn that on and it expands.

00:36:52

Lauren & Rob: Wait, like the site text changes? Like it's a translation?

00:36:56

James Redenbaugh: Yeah, yeah. So we can wait.

00:37:01

Lauren & Rob: So tell me. And then like a not nerdy version.

00:37:07

James Redenbaugh: Huh. Yeah. Just like changing language.

00:37:10

Lauren & Rob: You have to write like two versions.

00:37:13

James Redenbaugh: You do, but oh my God.

00:37:18

Lauren & Rob: I'm sorry, can we just camp out here for just like three minutes, maybe not longer. Do you realize that like. So I worked at Lectica back in the day. Do you know what Lectica is? Lectica is a project created by Zack Stein and Theo Dawson that developed linguistic based assessments using the dynamic development theories of Kurt Fisher and like his associated folks. So it's a dynamic. It's like you can see into the complexity of mind within a specific domain of content. Not just like ego development, although you might be able to see into the domain of self understanding if you define it. But like you could see how a 10th grader in school the complexity of their reasoning based on the linguistic structure that you're. That they're using.

00:38:06

Lauren & Rob: And so what they built were developmental testing assessments designed to be used to show real development in the cognitive complexity of that student's understanding of that domain of knowledge like math or science or something to do with literature or moral reasoning. Which means kids would write long form responses and educators then get a dynamic development output, not a performance knowledge output, but like a. Your kid is here in their conceptual understanding and based on the arc of concepts and the ladder of learning, their next move is here. Right. So it's developmentally generative. Right. Long story short link, you can use like you can write for a 10th grader or you can write for an 8th grader or you can write For a PhD.

00:38:54

Lauren & Rob: Like able to be able to run translations and into the extent that maybe AI is helpful in that, like you could have five translations across developmental capability, not across like language or not to. Yeah, you effectively get a multi perspectival. It's really like. Yeah.

00:39:25

James Redenbaugh: Yeah.

00:39:26

Lauren & Rob: Extra work that is.

00:39:27

James Redenbaugh: And well with AI we could even have a slider on top of the page that comes through different levels, you know, from PhD to third grader and you just decide where you're at.

00:39:44

Lauren & Rob: But do you realize how like that would be like the Rosetta stone?

00:39:48

James Redenbaugh: Yeah, I mean I could imagine a, a not too far off technology and an agent that understands your own level of reasoning in different domains, wherever you're at. The. The tool that you engage with, that gets to know you, that then translates for you everything you encounter in your own language. So you're like, I want to read this Buckminster Fuller book. And it gets what you grok and it presents it to you in a way that it knows that you'll understand, urging you further work.

00:40:21

Lauren & Rob: Have you ready? Yeah. Okay. Talking about this in terms of the generative possibility of AI in education, but also the degenerative possibility.

00:40:29

James Redenbaugh: Yeah, yeah. It could either, you know, dumb everything down or be a conveyor belt for folks to progress.

00:40:43

Lauren & Rob: Like totally stunt and distort or perfectly beautifully enable, meet and enable and elevate. Right.

00:40:51

James Redenbaugh: Yeah.

00:40:52

Lauren & Rob: It would be cool to maybe consider at a future point, especially because such an endeavor would be an example of a Trifora activity. Right. Because it is interstitial in nature in terms of meaning making. Would be really cool to consider, like, oh, we have essays on our website that we have intentionally invested in translating across four, you know, levels of complexity with the help of, you know, folks like the folks at Lectica who can say, this is kind of how it breaks down. And then we can say, like, notice what happens when you move the slider and how actually the same person doing that helps you learn. Like, helps me learn more iterations. So that's, I guess.

00:41:35

James Redenbaugh: Yeah, yeah, I could. Now we're on many tangents of tangents, but I just immediately think about the intellectual divide in this country that has led to our current political climate and the futility of nuanced ethical debates that need to happen about our AI future and our. The coming waves of change and the masses of the increasingly uneducated populace that's just going to keep voting for the orange guy. There needs to be ways to reach everyone with the harder things that need.

00:42:30

Lauren & Rob: To be grappled with in a digestible, translatable way.

00:42:34

James Redenbaugh: Yeah, yeah.

00:42:38

Lauren & Rob: So this is an example of like a trans contextual project that would require collaboration between folks who are good developmental thinkers in terms of an educational sense and folks who can represent perspectives and help it be translated across value, not just complexity of mind, but like, I value, you know, so it's actually a really great example of a. A secondary or tertiary project that comes from a kind of. Yeah. Sensibility like this. Yeah.

00:43:15

James Redenbaugh: Oh, awesome. I'm getting to know Trifora better. Some of the roots and branches and.

00:43:26

Lauren & Rob: That, you know, in terms of the, like a fractal of the impact we want to have when someone comes to interact with our web presence that it's a. It's an you know, a connected opening, expansive invitation into more complexity, more humanity like that we could continue to build in ways that people are feeling the signature of our relationship with them by virtue of something like that. Like let's just really to know that we can. And we'll have to prioritize when we do and not get lost in. No for sure. I guess if I. If I could just. Since you said this is helping me to get to know Trifora. Like I'm just noticing a little like a little call out in this moment which is. I've gotten a lot of personal feedback over the years of being in.

00:44:19

Lauren & Rob: In a trainer seat, you know, and doing the kind of if work attendee work that something I care about does get translated through my way of being which is like we're going to. To really encourage people to make things accessible that like we don't have to kind of feel the. The dauntedness of doing a little meditative practice or trying something out in the room. Like I've gotten a lot of feedback of you encourage people and you make people feel like you can just try something and it's not a. You take the stakes down. But I've also gotten feedback that I use language in a way that distances people because the words are complex or the phrasing is complex. So I'm very aware of both of those and I care about the signature of what we do here to really be encouraging, not distancing.

00:45:07

Lauren & Rob: But I don't want to play dumb and dumb down what are really and truly like difficult things to put into words sometimes. So I think that's. Yeah. So just that like when I think about that comment I made about how we present who we are, that's actually what I'm trying to achieve is like accessibility and contact is invited as opposed to like I'm a sexy person who did XYZ and you can think about how great I am or whatever it is that might happen for people.

00:45:41

James Redenbaugh: Right.

00:45:41

Lauren & Rob: But it's again it's the polarity of like accessibility without losing the complexity. Yes. Like maximum. Both. Yeah.

00:45:51

James Redenbaugh: Yeah yeah. This is the challenge and opportunity.

00:46:07

Lauren & Rob: And. And to your point about space between. James, I think in. In for what we keep noticing is sometimes that goal is achieved by not naming the thing directly, but having there be a question, a poetic verse, an image and something else. And when you take in all four of those snippets together you get a gestalt that is actually closer to what's trying to be communicated than if we tried to distill it into an assertion. So.

00:46:39

James Redenbaugh: Yeah. Cool. I feel like there's a, a simple way somewhere in here to meet this challenge in the V version of the website. And so I want to sit with that while you guys continue your copy explorations and integrate the understanding that things can unfold and be somewhat fractal even in this initial version of the site. And we'll find a way to. To put it together that is hopefully inviting and meets people and ex starts to express the essence of. Of what's here and becomes a place that we can build upon and continue to grow.

00:47:57

Lauren & Rob: Beautiful.

00:48:01

James Redenbaugh: Cool.

00:48:04

Lauren & Rob: So next moves between now and a still hopefully target date of April 1st. We obviously need to continue doing some distillation. Is there anything else you need from us apart from the what feels to me now like. Okay, so we'll do some more crystallizing but also some nutshelling so that we can kind of group these things and do some of that appropriate compartmentalizing and relationship drawing between concepts. Yeah, apart from that, I guess can we create our own form for the hollyhock space between thing? If we ask people for like, you know, name, color, photo, what they're passionate about and their relationships in this group, is that like if we just did a form like that?

00:49:10

James Redenbaugh: Yeah, totally. Why don't you check out Airtable. I'll send you a link. This is airtable.com and make a base there. It should be free and invite me to it as an editor and you should be able to see how to create a form. You can decide what fields to add to it. Feel free to share that with me if you want before you send it out and have a look and then we'll able to take. We'll be able to take that data and play with it and do fun stuff.

00:50:09

Lauren & Rob: Amazing.

00:50:12

James Redenbaugh: Cool.

00:50:13

Lauren & Rob: Yay. Calendar. Calendar. You want to get a next time on the calendar together and maybe that includes Emily.

00:50:26

James Redenbaugh: Oh yeah.

00:50:27

Lauren & Rob: Or like a few minutes with Emily as a introduction. Hello. How are you? Like a half hour and then we do a half hour for Iris Trifora stuff and then is there James, like is there a. Like maybe I just want to understand between, like by what point in the next week do you need us to be like, this is. These are the words, James, for now.

00:50:58

James Redenbaugh: Good question. It would be great by Wednesday if we could say these other words knowing they'll evolve. Okay. And I'm sure continue to evolve. And you guys will be able to edit and update them on the site. But Wednesday would be good. And, and also I wanted to say, as you're doing the words, if you want to sketch an image, draw a flower or anything non linear to illustrate how you see them coming together, feel free to do that.

00:51:44

Lauren & Rob: Yeah, we'll use the mirror space maybe. Is that the best place to do that? Our shared mirror space?

00:51:49

James Redenbaugh: Sure.

00:51:49

Lauren & Rob: I'll give you a paintbrush. Yeah, great. Can we do it in clay for you, please?

00:51:57

James Redenbaugh: Yeah.

00:51:59

Lauren & Rob: Okay, fantastic.

00:52:00

James Redenbaugh: Any medium.

00:52:03

Lauren & Rob: How's your Tuesday, April 1, James? Actually Monday the 31st is fine too.

00:52:15

James Redenbaugh: I've got a noon to two on the 1st, then that I'm open and Monday? I'm even more open right now.

00:52:29

Lauren & Rob: Oh, that's Pacific time. Okay, do your 11 Monday. My 11? Yes. Can do 11 to noon. That's you're on Tuesday. Did you say Monday or Tuesday? I was looking at Tuesday. Tuesday my 11. Got it. Yeah. Yeah.

00:52:49

James Redenbaugh: Okay, great. I'll check with Emily, see if that works for her to hop in for half an hour and we can be in touch the rest of the week on. On WhatsApp as we're putting things together and. Okay. I'm also happy to hop on a spontaneous call if we want to workshop anything.

00:53:25

Lauren & Rob: Okay, fantastic. So great.

00:53:32

James Redenbaugh: Okay guys, thank you so much. I'll be in touch and talk to you later.

00:53:40

Lauren & Rob: Okay, great. We left you a little present in the transcript that your notetaker may have captured. So enjoy that.

00:53:46

James Redenbaugh: Cool.

00:53:47

Lauren & Rob: Awesome.

00:53:50

James Redenbaugh: Take care.

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