00:00:00

Ava Tusek: Orin.

00:00:02

Ellen Keith Shaw: I'm just looking for something real quick on my computer here.

00:00:05

Ava Tusek: Okay, sounds good.

00:00:24

Ellen Keith Shaw: I don't know.

00:00:25

Ava Tusek: All right.

00:00:26

Ellen Keith Shaw: It says I have some extensions.

00:00:28

Ava Tusek: Yeah, I can hear you.

00:00:29

Ellen Keith Shaw: All right, then I'm not going to worry about it. Great. Thanks for making time today.

00:00:43

Ava Tusek: Yeah, I am. I'm doing well. I'm kind of excited to walk through this with you. I. I did see your email. I do agree that I think, you know, the, like, most common denominator is really just getting the website optimized and more optimized. Have you had a chance to kind of do a slightly deeper dive on our existing website?

00:01:14

Ellen Keith Shaw: No, I basically I sat with your content because I was like, your content, to me seems the direction you're moving. So I wasn't sure much of a point of me going deep there. I'm happy to do that today to make recommendations, but, yeah, I just thought this. The document that you shared with me is where you're going. So that's where I was kind of focused.

00:01:35

Ava Tusek: Okay, sounds good. I think that, you know, that is definitely the direction that we're trying to move, in my opinion. And my take on this is that I think healthcare is a really spicy topic. In all honesty, it's kind of up there among, like, it's just very politically charged, especially nowadays. I think that it's. It's one of those things that I kind of want to approach with caution, because if you position yourself. And again, this is just my take, so I'm open to, like, you know, hearing different opinions from someone who's more of like a messaging expert.

00:02:20

Ellen Keith Shaw: But.

00:02:20

Ava Tusek: But my take is just that even though people are being hurt by their security blanket, if you call their security blanket the. The traditional health insurance system, they're also very, like, stuck to the idea of that safety blanket. And so if you present yourself as too much of a change maker, too much of a rebel in the space of healthcare, you're actually going to be turning off a relatively significant amount of people. It's one of those things where, like, you know, some people will be really compelled by the idea of biohacking, and other people will be like, I don't, you know, is this even. Is the pseudoscience? Like, I don't. I want you to give me prescription medication when I need it. I don't want to be told to go to the cold plunge. And my dad does a really excellent job in his actual practice of kind of finding the right ways to approach those different customer avatars. Like, he finger on the pulse over who's interested in more of an alternative approach. And he also has his finger on the post. On the pulse of who's interested in like, I just want my traditional western medicine experience, but I want it a little bit faster and a little bit more, you know, personalized than what I'm getting from traditional insurance. And so I figure that the best way to move if and again, keeping in mind that we're kind of trying to expand and we're trying to go beyond just the Boulder county area and we eventually, like, I don't want to do tons of iterations on this site over and over again. I want an avatar who's in New Mexico and Utah or Nebraska or wherever to also feel like they are being spoken to. And so our core offering and what cloud really delivers on ultimately right now that's amazing is personalized direct primary care. That can mean really whatever you want it to mean. Like we kind of leave it up to them to decide if they want it to be a total like biohacking situation or hey, you know, I want to go a trip traditional route. But I do know that I'm like a little bit tired now that I've hit menopause and so like what can we do to tackle that? Doesn't necessarily feel like functional biohacking and it feels very like evidence backed scientific medical approach. And I would rather use the copy and use the website given that we're trying to transition to a place where we're having mostly like hold leads and organic searches come to the website. So people who haven't heard about the wonderful things that the cloud physicians are doing on a day to day basis. These are people who've come from maybe a Google Ad or they happened to like see a podcast or they were like specifically targeted for one reason or another, whether it's a paid search or whatever. But they don't necessarily know our current patients right now. Most of the people who fill out our enrollment inquiry, they're warm leads, they're coming from referrals. I almost never have people say that they found us via an independent search. I think I've had four people say that so far this year. And so I think the reason why the website resonates with them right now is because they're already informed of the offering from somebody else. They're pre educated from somebody else. And based on the fact that we're not appearing at the top of anybody's search, even though we have a significant patient base in Boulder, it tells me that the website just is not really landing for people. Kind of, to James's point, I don't think that the branding is quite on point to emphasize exactly what we do. And I would rather, if we're trying to scale, have the co. Have the copy feel much more streamlined, much more simple, and quite frankly a little bit less like we're breaking the chains. I want to feel that you're opting into something that is different from what you're used to. And I like that my dad is kind of toying more with the word like renaissance as opposed to revolution. But I think that it's really difficult to say, like, are you a biohacking hippie who's really excited to like give an FU to the, you know, insurance companies? Whereas it's much easier to target somebody who is like looking for primary care doctor in Denver area or, you know, need urgent care in Boulder. Like those are the types of things that I are much more common. They're much more on people's radar. I think it's easier to talk to those people on a scalable sense. And so I, I really want to make sure that whatever we do with the website doesn't lose the heart of my dad's argument. But it's much easily accessible to people because I just don't feel that his, I mean, I love his brain. But when he goes, we're not your doctors, we're your personal healthcare Sherpas, it's like you're just going to turn off, I think a lot of people. And if you still wanted to be a micro practice in Boulder County, I think that's perfect. You've hit the nail on the head for what that demographic of people are looking for. But if you want to expand to like Albuquerque or Utah, and you want to invite people who are also just looking for like new primary care and they're going to be informed and educated about all of the different changes that you're bringing to the table once you've established that trust as their doctor? Because I really think that's kind of the other thing. Like people aren't necessarily like a website, I don't think is where you establish trust. I think you establish trust and authority once they've been seen, once they've spoken to a cloud clinician who's demonstratively knows what they're talking about, knows the healthcare system and says, hey, you know, I really recommend that you get an MRI on your knee. You can use your insurance, but just so you know, if you use cash pay it's 60 bucks. And types of interactions that I think are actually going to fuel this renaissance. Having the website be like a, you know, join our GoFundMe to take down insurance and to have a completely new healthcare economic system. Like, I just think that scope is a story that could be told in like a series of PODC or. But if I think about the actual like landing page and when people are coming from having like very minimal education and what's the first thing that they're seeing, I just think that most of them are going to be like intrigued by. This is better primary care. This is direct access to the care that you deserve to have in your primary care. I just feel like that story is like an easier entry point than we're changing healthcare economics.

00:09:20

Ellen Keith Shaw: And you know, and to your point, and you can speak like is your dad, are you on podcasts or is that on your radar? Is like a marketing effort.

00:09:29

Ava Tusek: Yeah.

00:09:30

Ellen Keith Shaw: So in those realms you can speak very specifically to those audiences. Right. And what kind of like, what's your effort? So podcasts are already. You're already doing that. What other kinds of things have you guys done to try to drive cold leads to your site? And just to be clear, like, I'm not an SEO specialist, but I'm just curious. Those people. Yeah, it's good for me to know.

00:09:52

Ava Tusek: Yeah. So my dad says that we have done paid marketing in the past and it looked like Facebook ads primarily and he paid some like random third party company to drive Facebook ads. But it's been years since we've done that. I don't know, it was probably around Covid era was maybe the last time that was happening. And like an actual effort presumably, if I had to guess, to promote our use of telemedicine. And the fact that were one of the first clinics in the country to offer tests, I had to guess that was maybe like the marketing factor that they used. But right now like absolutely nothing. We do have a YouTube channel. I think there are four videos posted there. We're currently working with a like marketing content creation guy. My dad's going to be doing like weekly podcasts, formal podcasts, and some like daily content creation that's a little bit more informal. And. And so we're working with this gentleman and his team to. He has like a podcast studio. So he'll record the content, he'll edit it, he'll chop it up, he'll help us post it on, you know, Apple and Spotify and turn it into shorts for Instagram YouTube, TikTok, I think Facebook. so those are all like, that content creation is definitely like, we're going to be doing a significant push. I think he just wants to make sure that when people like they have somewhere to go. Because what we don't want to do is necessarily be like, have the call to action, be like, sign up, join cloud. Now I don't think that, you know, people need more education than that, but like, hey, link in our bio to go find out more. And then it just takes you to a really clear website that just seems to me more. Less pushy, less aggressive, less like overtly salesy.

00:11:43

Ellen Keith Shaw: Yeah, yeah. And that's, you know, I can't remember if I wrote this in the email, but like you do want that congruence. Like your dad's talking about what you guys are doing and then not that it needs to be as nuanced as a podcast can be, but just that they're, they feel like they're in the right place and like. Yeah, I actually. Is it okay for. I know how like we booked for 30 minutes and what is your, what's your time?

00:12:10

Ava Tusek: Just like where I. I do have a call unfortunately at 2:30.

00:12:15

Ellen Keith Shaw: Okay. So I think what we should do, we're not going to have like a ton of time to go through your whole content, but what I can do is go through it and record like a video where I'm walking through, kind of sharing my thoughts.

00:12:28

Ava Tusek: Yeah, that would be amazing.

00:12:29

Ellen Keith Shaw: You don't get to it. I just wanted to take like a few steps back since my specialty is the brand strategy and kind of show you how I think about brands. And I think it might be helpful just as you're developing this new content and creating, I feel like a little more personal voice is what I hear. Like, you know, you were saying your background is a little bit in corporate writing. So we want to make it speaking to the people that you're speaking, you know, trying to speak to so they feel seen. Hold on, let's see. Share screen. There we go. Okay. Are you seeing my screen now?

00:13:19

Ava Tusek: Yes.

00:13:21

Ellen Keith Shaw: Okay, great. So, yeah, I just wanted to go kind of back a little bit to the beginning of brand and where we're talking right now is a little bit like in here, right. Positioning and planning. And I was just curious. I totally see very clearly your purpose, especially with how you've talked about it, how your dad's talked about it and other things I've read like on your enrollment sheet and yeah, I mean, purpose is clear. Y' all are clear on that. I'm a little less clear. If you've done work on personality, the brand personality and the people that you're speaking to. I know you're naming them, but I just want to understand them a little bit more. And this one doesn't apply to you. This is for companies that I work with that are doing kind of planet based work.

00:14:08

Ava Tusek: Gotcha.

00:14:08

Ellen Keith Shaw: Is personality and people very much. You know, this journey affects this and this. So that then when you're communicating outward, you're really clear on why you're saying the things you're saying.

00:14:21

Ava Tusek: And.

00:14:24

Ellen Keith Shaw: In my experience these two come much more easy because you've kind of been on this journey and it doesn't need to be a long journey, I think, I mean it can be weeks or it can be a two hour workshop up. You know, we can choose how deep to go and I know we don't have time to go deep, but I did want to kind of propose, you know, this understanding of brand or at least, you know, I'm sure you understand this, but how I'm kind of thinking about it in my mind.

00:14:50

Ava Tusek: Yeah.

00:14:51

Ellen Keith Shaw: And think about brand. Right. We have all these invisible traits and it's not all that different than this journey here. But you know, values and belief drive the culture of a company. What you're doing, the behavior, like how you're acting like out in the market and is it congruent with how you're talking with yourself? And then tone of voice like so the visible traits are kind of behavior, tone of voice and look and feel. But that all of these things like very much drive these things. And so we're right now kind of in this tone of voice and look and feel realm. And I'm wanting to. Yeah for you mostly, but also for me to make sure that these other things have been kind of explicitly named.

00:15:38

Ava Tusek: Yeah.

00:15:39

Ellen Keith Shaw: Go through this too. Like so when I do strategy, right. We have these strategy sessions and then they kind of move through. Like out of that comes this understanding audience, those things we just looked at. And once you're very clear on that, right. These things, the greens start to kind of come into focus less. I'm going to skip this right here for now. Like this I thought would be. This is for a client that I ran this with. So pardon like it being filled in. But it could be helpful for an example and I'm happy to share this with you after. But this is a really interesting thing since you guys are an existing brand with like a lot of success. And looking to grow. I was curious, you know, where, you know, our brand gaps are so that you can kind of begin focusing in on that too. Doing it. I just don't think it's been like named quite exactly like this. Like, I think we know there's a marketing problems, a strong word, but like a marketing opportunity. Let's use that. Like opportunities. Like it seems like, yeah, these two actually your brand seems strong. Like people are loyal, right? Like they're referring. You, you're getting warm leads. You know, maybe there's more on like the advocacy part, I'm not sure. But this conversion, like the sales and marketing and again, this is like an upside down triangle, right, like right here with the awareness area of focus.

00:17:15

Ava Tusek: Well, yeah, this is, I think you're really tapping into something that maybe my dad doesn't feel like is too much of a problem just because he's not really handling much of the like, operational side. But I can tell you very clearly from being the one to kind of do these discovery calls and talking to people, like the problem that one of the problems that we're facing is like, yes, people come to us and it's really exciting. They have their coming in as a warm lead. They've heard really great things. But anybody who, like, of those few people who were not recommended directly by somebody, they all think that we're concierge. Every single one of them, they look at the website and they feel like it's concierge. And I've talked to them directly and they have all been really upset by the fact that we're not their personal assistants in healthcare. Even though I had my discovery calls with them and said we're not concierge very explicitly and we provide you with resources, but we're not your personal assistant. And I really do think it's because my dad, he really wants the brand to feel concierge, like, but I think if we start putting that in the brand, people just get confused and they start to have aggrandized expectations. And so I actually think this is a really valuable exercise just to be really clear to him, like, you've been able to do that because you're a small mom and pop company. When you start to expand to 2,000, 3,000, a lot of those concierge, you know, touches are actually going to start to decrease. And so what's left in the offering, what we do really well, which is what people are actually coming for, at least when they're coming in, like, and they're aware they're Educated. Yeah. Which is really great primary care.

00:19:07

Ellen Keith Shaw: And so just so I'm clear, concierge is like, connects you to all the things.

00:19:13

Ava Tusek: Yeah.

00:19:13

Ellen Keith Shaw: You can between what you. I mean, I know you guys are primary care providers, but.

00:19:17

Ava Tusek: No, no, this is, this is so important. Like, this is, has been a huge crux for the brand. I literally just had a meeting with the entire team last week because they didn't even know the difference between concierge and what we do.

00:19:30

Ellen Keith Shaw: So I think this is a really.

00:19:31

Ava Tusek: Important component of the brand to nail. The first and easiest access point is that a concierge doctor runs you anywhere from $500 a month to $10,000 a month.

00:19:42

Ellen Keith Shaw: That's more like Cloud X. Cloud.

00:19:45

Ava Tusek: Yeah, exactly. But Cloud X. Even still, that's going to be probably like a $50,000 yearly offering. If I had to guess, it's expensive because they do everything for you. Like you're told when you have to show up, you have all of your docs are like pre filled. Like, you pretty much don't have to do anything except move through the ecosystem because your prescriptions are filled, your tests are scheduled, your diagnostics are like on the books for four, six, eight months in advance. There's really very little you have to do. We're taking on the burden of dealing with the specialists, dealing with the other referral sources because we actually don't do most of our care or most of our specialty care in house. Right. And it's all covered within the cost of your membership. Because if we're spending $10,000 on your diagnostics, but you're paying us 50, then hey, it all makes sense. DPC is, will give you the resources that you need to be successful, but it's all add on costs and it's all kind of like choose your own adventure. If I had to like say in the simplest terms. So you take on, we'll say, hey, we recommend that you get a virtual colonoscopy and here's why. And people will say, okay, you're right, I probably need that. I'll figure out a way to put it in the budget. And we say, great, here's your referral. Go get it scheduled, Go deal with their billing department, go handle that, you know, process and we'll let you know when we have the results. And I'm having a ton of patients right now who are like, well, you guys aren't calling the pharmacy for me and you guys aren't calling the billing department for me. And it's like, that's because we're not concierge. You have to do it yourself. But we can get you access to these things, which through insurance, you have to prove that you need a referral to all of the things and it's just not nonsense. And we'll say like, hey, if you want that virtual colonoscopy, we'll give you the referral without forcing you to do the 10 steps that would require. But once we give you that referral, we're not in charge of your scheduling, we're not in charge of their billing department, we're not in charge of you, like, you know, filling out the paperwork ahead of that appointment. Like, you have to deal with those things by yourself. And a concierge doc would take on basically all of that, like, clinical and administrative burden for you.

00:22:03

Ellen Keith Shaw: Got you. Yeah. And so it sounds like people are just not totally clear what primary care is. And to be fair, like, the whole healthcare system is like super confusing.

00:22:12

Ava Tusek: But it's very confusing. But when my dad tries to position the brand as where your personal. Yeah, yeah, I understand why people think that we're going to help them in a much more handholding way.

00:22:25

Ellen Keith Shaw: And do those results come back to you guys? Like, is there a link there?

00:22:30

Ava Tusek: It depends. It really depends on. On what it is. If it's a. If it's labs, it come back. Comes back sometimes depending on which third party system they used. If it's imaging, it comes back. If they're local and we're integrated with them, so we're like integrated with and faxed via like Boulder Community Health. And the major hospitals here, like, know us and they can fax to us. But if you have a more off the, like not something that's not associated with a specific hospital. So for example, like a prenuvo scan, which is a full body mri, we have to receive those results. If you do it through Function Health, you have to like send us those results. So, you know, one of the problems, and this is annoying about healthcare, like, nothing is fully integrated.

00:23:20

Ellen Keith Shaw: Yeah.

00:23:21

Ava Tusek: And, you know, we just don't have the administrative ability to fully do that for our patients. So.

00:23:28

Ellen Keith Shaw: Okay. So I know we have like a minute left. I have a piece of homework for you, which I'd be really curious.

00:23:34

Ava Tusek: Yeah.

00:23:35

Ellen Keith Shaw: You could like reverse engineer this.

00:23:37

Ava Tusek: I'm sure.

00:23:37

Ellen Keith Shaw: What are the like top five or list however you want, issues that you're currently running into. You know, like you were saying, you tell people we're not concierge, but they still hear concierge. And then get mad when we're not concierge. Like that kind of example. Be an interesting exercise. I know, like, time is very much of the essence for you guys. And I also want to make sure we're steering you in the right direction so that we're giving it attention it needs and answering the right questions.

00:24:07

Ava Tusek: For sure.

00:24:09

Ellen Keith Shaw: And so I am going to review your copy and record some thoughts that.

00:24:14

Ava Tusek: I'm having on it.

00:24:15

Ellen Keith Shaw: I would recommend us doing like, another hour and just running through some exercises, if that's all right and I think of the process.

00:24:22

Ava Tusek: I would love that. Can we actually maybe take the last two minutes here to put something like that on the books this week?

00:24:28

Ellen Keith Shaw: Yeah.

00:24:29

Ava Tusek: Thank you.

00:24:30

Ellen Keith Shaw: No problem.

00:24:34

Ava Tusek: Yeah.

00:24:34

Ellen Keith Shaw: What. What do you have? I'm still. It's still. Let's see here. Wednesday would probably be the best.

00:24:40

Ava Tusek: Okay. What day on or what time on Wednesday? I'm pretty open.

00:24:46

Ellen Keith Shaw: Could we do. So 11 Pacific Standard Time? Is 12 yours, is that right?

00:24:52

Ava Tusek: Yes, that's right.

00:24:53

Ellen Keith Shaw: Okay, let's do 11 to 12. And what I'll do, I'll send you a zoom link.

00:24:59

Ava Tusek: I am sorry. I. My dad put a lunch meeting on my calendar from. Okay, so 11 is 12. So I'm free at 12 Pacific time, and then I'm also free before. That's actually like, the one hour that I'm not available, unfortunately.

00:25:13

Ellen Keith Shaw: So we could potentially do. I'm just thinking here. So 1. My time would be two year time. And it sounds like that would work.

00:25:26

Ava Tusek: That would work.

00:25:27

Ellen Keith Shaw: Okay. All right, cool. I'm gonna send over an invite.

00:25:32

Ava Tusek: And.

00:25:33

Ellen Keith Shaw: We'Ll kind of take it from there.

00:25:34

Ava Tusek: Okay, that sounds phenomenal. And I will. If there's any chance that you could send that framework, I am happy to kind of take a look at it just so that I'm, like, prepared. Yeah. Going into it. Yeah. Because this is all I'm dedicating my week to, so. All right.

00:25:54

Ellen Keith Shaw: Yeah, I'll send that over the next hour or so.

00:25:58

Ava Tusek: Awesome. Thank you so much, Ellen. I really appreciate it. I'm sorry we couldn't meet for longer.

00:26:03

Ellen Keith Shaw: All right. Yeah, I'll see you Wednesday.

00:26:04

Ava Tusek: Okay, I'll see you Wednesday. Thank you. Bye.

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