00:00:02

Simone Torrey: Hello.

00:01:24

Adam Rose: Hello. Howdy.

00:01:31

James Redenbaugh: Hi, Adam.

00:01:32

Adam Rose: Hey, James.

00:01:35

James Redenbaugh: Hi.

00:01:35

Adam Rose: Avon looks like he's getting connected.

00:01:41

James Redenbaugh: How are you guys doing?

00:01:45

Adam Rose: Great. I was in Tahoe for the last couple days, so. Spent the day on the mountain yesterday. It's great.

00:01:54

James Redenbaugh: Is it still snowy up there?

00:01:57

Adam Rose: It's melting rapidly, but yes, there's still a lot of snow on the mountain.

00:02:02

James Redenbaugh: Were you skiing or hiking?

00:02:04

Adam Rose: Snowboarding.

00:02:06

James Redenbaugh: Nice.

00:02:08

Iván Lopez: Hi, everybody. Wait, I just noticed that if I'm not here, it's just like the pitch.

00:02:19

Simone Torrey: Yeah, yeah.

00:02:22

Iván Lopez: I tried to put like a sticker or something like that so you have a better view instead of me for myself.

00:02:29

Simone Torrey: No, we like you. We like to see you, David. There we go.

00:02:33

Iván Lopez: Oh, thank you. I still think I look. I look better in. In the beach. So it's my gift to you. Thank you. So calm. So relax.

00:02:49

Simone Torrey: Yeah, a little bit of that. Little bit of calm while the world's going crazy.

00:03:03

Iván Lopez: I rather have some drinks.

00:03:08

Adam Rose: All right.

00:03:11

Iván Lopez: Sorry, what you were saying when I just joined in. Adam, you went to the mountain?

00:03:17

Adam Rose: Yeah, I was in Tahoe for the last few days.

00:03:22

Iván Lopez: How was.

00:03:24

Adam Rose: Was beautiful yesterday? The day before was raining, so we ended up not skiing, but it was still nice to be in the mountains.

00:03:34

Iván Lopez: You wanted to. To ski?

00:03:38

Adam Rose: I was snowboarding. I ski too, but I was snowboarding.

00:03:42

Iván Lopez: Oh. Actually I do have. I don't know, I wish of someday I. I go to the mountain and have some. This one's noboding. Here in Mexico, as far as I know, there's no. No mountains with snow. So it's one thing that I want to try.

00:04:04

Adam Rose: With waves.

00:04:04

Iván Lopez: Yeah, I prefer the snow, actually. Very short story. Here in my city in Monterrey, we have a very iconic mountain. It's called Cerro de la Silla. Ask me how his name in English, please. So it's very big and I went to the top, but I reached like halfway, something like that. And I looked to the peak of the mountain and I. I told to myself, like, it doesn't seem so far. Yeah, I'm sure I can do it, like, I don't know, half an hour or something like that. And man, I was dying because I didn't pack enough water and didn't have any food. So when I reached the pig, I was like, oh, man. And I just had like anxiety of wanting to come back. Yeah. But I. It was so high that it didn't matter how.

00:05:10

Iván Lopez: How much I went and back or down. I felt that I wasn't getting any closer to. To the entrance and I just had that Smaller anxiety. Oh, no. I think I'm gonna be stuck in the mountain. In that moment. I have a moment of brightness or stupidity because I saw like a tree bark and I. I don't know why it crossed my mind, like, maybe I could use that as a slide. I would slide down faster, but it was just like tree bark. It wouldn't hold my weight. And even if it could, the road or the track was so awful that I wouldn't be able to slide down anyways. But it was just like that of the moment that I want to get the hell out of here.

00:06:09

Adam Rose: You were hallucinating. Maybe you're getting a little delirious.

00:06:13

Iván Lopez: Yeah. The fear and the panic of becoming a mountain man. As you can see right now, I'm in a very place. Not as good as a beach, but I've survived, so I'm stronger now. I'm a survivor.

00:06:38

Simone Torrey: You're a mountain man now.

00:06:41

Iván Lopez: The lesson is always packing up water and some food.

00:06:45

Simone Torrey: Yes. That is always the lesson.

00:06:49

Adam Rose: Yeah.

00:06:49

James Redenbaugh: You only make that mistake once.

00:06:52

Simone Torrey: Yeah.

00:06:54

Iván Lopez: Well, yeah, because I haven't go back to the mountain again. So I just haven't committed mistake once.

00:07:03

Adam Rose: Traumatized.

00:07:06

Iván Lopez: Now I want to go back. But I had some issues with my lower back. So maybe, hopefully something in the future. Future. But yeah, that's my short, crazy story.

00:07:19

Simone Torrey: Thank you. Is rock gonna change? Join us or.

00:07:28

James Redenbaugh: I don't think so. Today I think it's just us, but I'm recording this.

00:07:36

Simone Torrey: Cool.

00:07:37

James Redenbaugh: So how's Alex doing?

00:07:42

Simone Torrey: Well, Alex was skiing in the mountains.

00:07:44

Adam Rose: Alex was skiing, Alex's creator, and he was doing taxes on Friday as well. So Alex hasn't changed a whole lot. I was working last week, I think I mentioned in Slack, but if briefly. But I started playing around with auth stuff with Stitch. One of the reasons I kind of like it is that it's. Well, it's free, for starters, but it's. The pricing is totally linear. So it's like, you know, kind of scales with you as needed versus, like, oh, you're in some other tier. And those tiers tend to step up pretty rapidly.

00:08:22

Simone Torrey: No tax brackets.

00:08:24

Adam Rose: Right? Exactly. And it's something like free up until like 10,000 users or something like that. So we've got a fair bit of Runway, I think, until we even need to worry about it. And not just that there's technical reasons. I like it too, but it is probably a little less out of the box ready to go with webflow. So I think I want to take some time to just at least try to. If we give, if we go this way, here's some really good examples of. Here's JavaScript code. You just drop this in and hopefully it would be pretty straightforward. But they have all kinds of examples and different clients and servers and languages and there's REACT versions and vanilla JavaScript versions. So it's a little more nuts and bolts.

00:09:14

Adam Rose: So it might take a little bit more to get it kind of stood up. But I think it's pretty. Should be pretty straightforward, but it may just not be quite as easy. James, as forget the name of the one you mentioned before, but Member Stack. Yeah, Member Stack.

00:09:31

James Redenbaugh: Yeah. Or wiz.

00:09:37

Adam Rose: Right.

00:09:40

Simone Torrey: And Adam and I just at our team meeting before this and we're, you know, we're starting to get our teeth into how to prepare the suggestion agent and we have to do that with the RAG application, which is not something we've done before. And so we, you know, kind of need to turn our attention towards that next. So whatever bottlenecks they are with you, we'll have to pause a little bit. Unless it's like holding up stuff.

00:10:17

Adam Rose: Yeah. Or at least to have the back end to plug into. So I think you can certainly work out all the design flows and whatever.

00:10:23

Simone Torrey: Yeah.

00:10:23

Adam Rose: Obviously just to wire it into the back end, we'll have to circle back on. But I did, you know, I got as far as like I could get login working. I got it working with Google to authenticate, you know, as a SSO provider. So it definitely works. Just need a little bit more time with it. And then James, I saw your comment too. We'll need the kind of feedback APIs when we want to actually do the, you know, thumbs up, thumbs down stuff on responses and we could design that stuff out too. Created in our ClickUp. I think I created a couple stories for it, but it's like.

00:11:06

Adam Rose: And I could either, I don't know, I don't want to get into access stuff again but like I could either just send those details over to you guys, but I think, you know, it's pretty much following the way Claude does it and you know, if you click on it pops up, you know, a modal and if it's negative feedback, there's actually a drop down as to what type, like whether it's a UI bug or whether it's a hallucination. Like they have a handful of pre canned things, but then there's a text field. You can just provide any additional color that you want to. So I think it'll be something Similar to that and then probably a feedback thing at the whole app level. So if they just had general feedback, they wanted to say, hey, this was really great.

00:11:48

Adam Rose: This app was cool or you know, or not, you know, behave like my mother. And it was very triggering for me. But something at the app level and the individual responses is what we're thinking there. So we could certainly go and work out, you know, the screens and stuff. Whenever you guys are ready.

00:12:14

Iván Lopez: Right.

00:12:15

James Redenbaugh: Awesome.

00:12:15

Simone Torrey: And how's Alex's face doing?

00:12:20

Iván Lopez: He's doing fantastic because he's on a beach. Is getting a little bit of tan. Yeah, it's looking tastier.

00:12:36

Simone Torrey: Sure is. Yeah.

00:12:40

Iván Lopez: Actually I like a lot what you said that you were playing with the integrations of odd. I would love to have a little bit more time this week to polish some details, but I already went into webflow and started building like the wireframes or the designs we already have. If you access the on the webflow project, you'll see, I think I call it the user access page. I already had there like two forms where you will be able to play a bit and maybe you'll have a chance to start playing already with elements that we already built and integrated it into integrating it with Auth. So I went ahead and build the sign up screen or the login screen. This screen. Well, let me show you.

00:13:38

Adam Rose: Yeah, maybe you could just share it. I'm trying to pull it up right now in webflow pages. I see user access.

00:13:53

Iván Lopez: There. Well, I'll. I'll jump into waffle in a minute. I build the design of screen, the conversation screen. I adjusted a little bit the design that we made for the chat. I applied some of the styles of the input here and applied some of the effects that were playing here with the send button and all that stuff. I saw your comments Simon, where you like the specifically this version of the brief screen. Sorry, I didn't have enough time to build it up for the meeting and I was allowed to start playing with the questions you sent me and start to plan it here in Figma or how we look tech and having in mind that functions that you tell us that.

00:15:00

Iván Lopez: Okay, let's go ahead with the questions or maybe skip them for later here in webflow Maybe I have a little bit of a mess of the pages here. This is the one for the login again these are elements are rebuilt and I added some simple interactions just to make it easier for us to understand how it will play or how it will work. As I told you Adam, on the last Meeting. I think if you have no problem with that, we can have a single page where the user can log in or sign up and we'll just play with the elements or. Or which is showing up again to know that like all that extra stuff. And from webflow, as you can see the interactions we'll have here, both forms, you can go ahead and click any one of those and start making changes.

00:16:04

Iván Lopez: And it will look easier or simpler on the live page. So again, it's like adding extra steps for us. For the moment, it doesn't matter which button you click. It will take you to the menu section. I think will be cool to add a little spin to the triangle. But if you can see it has a weird effect. I think it's because it's not a circular object. It seems like it's going a little bit up and down. Maybe we could polish that a little bit between you and I, James, how it plays our interaction. And don't spend.

00:16:44

Simone Torrey: I mean, I know for you that's that, but it's beautiful. Don't spend too much time on that.

00:16:51

Iván Lopez: Okay, I didn't say anything. Okay. I didn't say anything. You didn't hear anything. Yes.

00:16:59

Simone Torrey: All right.

00:16:59

Adam Rose: All right.

00:17:02

James Redenbaugh: I think we at least want the triangle to. If, if it's a rotating triangle, we want it to rotate from its midpoint. From the midpoint of the triangle, not the midpoint of its bounding box.

00:17:13

Iván Lopez: Yeah.

00:17:15

Adam Rose: But also drifting a little as it turns.

00:17:19

James Redenbaugh: Yeah. Also I'm going to share.

00:17:22

Adam Rose: I kind of like that.

00:17:25

Iván Lopez: Now all of us can see that bug in the animation. Just to keep it very short, I added again a simple interaction to make even clear in which button the user is hovering on. And as we talked previously, a new conversation that I received a previous one. Again in this moment. Both of these buttons will take you to the. To the chat page. And here's what I told just previously that I added some of the styles that were playing on the figma before in the little direction. I even wanted to add like a simple effect here. This ellipses that has like a gradient. Maybe add a interaction where you can see the. Where the gradient is like spinning slow. But it got a little bit trickier so I just went ahead with a little change of color on the arrow.

00:18:26

Iván Lopez: And now that we are on this page, what I. If you don't mind what I was thinking for the switching modes of what were talking on the previous conversation, if you can, it will be helpful enough. It doesn't matter if you can Go, both of you, Adam and Simone, to your cell phone and open WhatsApp. It doesn't matter which conversation is just to. For you to see the animation. When you go into the chat, you'll see that there's like an input field where you can start typing the message. And at the left there's a circle. And if there's no message written or something like that, you will see that there's like a microphone icon. When you start to type, something changes to a message. So that's like a benchmark that I liked a lot from other chat interfaces.

00:19:28

Iván Lopez: And my thinking was like, okay, maybe is like, too obvious or to cause like a lot of friction for the user to be like, okay, right now I'm in the reflective agent. Now I'm going to actively switch to the advice agent. So I was thinking of how can we, as an app and as a design can make that easier for the user. And I like that example that, okay, if you do not have like any text or message written, maybe we could suppose that in that moment the user is expecting to hear some advice. That's where what I was thinking that, okay, there's no message. Maybe the icon will change to something that could exemplify like, okay, now it's time for Alex to ask for some advice.

00:20:31

Iván Lopez: If I start to type something, the icon will change to the arrow, making this significance of, okay, now that I'm writing, of course, I mean, I'll keep in the reflective agent because I'm still talking with energy. And again, I was just thinking in those maybe scenarios or how can I make this 3C transition even easier and comfortable for the user instead of having like a maybe a specific switch, like, okay, I'm changing between modes and make making it more like, fluid or easier for the user. And that's what I tried to settle on the message that I, I said to you guys.

00:21:10

Simone Torrey: Yeah, it's really hard to explain what I find important though. Like, you know, in WhatsApp, you have a photo and a microphone, and it's very clear what those are. Right? Yeah, like, there's no question about it. But with the triangle, I'm like, what does that mean?

00:21:30

Adam Rose: Right?

00:21:31

Simone Torrey: What, what can I do with that? Right. So there's a lot of thinking involved. I, I'm, you know, I'm in awe of your sense of beauty and the little details. And we also, we shouldn't sacrifice clarity. Right. For, for the user.

00:21:52

Iván Lopez: Yeah, I'm totally agree. And you are 100% for the wireframes that I was working with. I just like rescue the triangle thing because I like it and it's not like the final version. I, I am aware of what you're saying. Okay. A triangle does not says anything of what is this doing? So maybe. Well, I was open to the idea to playing with maybe different icons. For example, there was a screen where I add a text. It's explicitly receive advice but in a design sense I didn't like that a lot. Where that single field, for example, this one will be cut in half to have both buttons or input. So I was open and I was clear that I, I needed to keep playing and exploring the new options to have it clear.

00:22:56

Iván Lopez: The sense that, okay, when I click on this I'm expecting advice, but again I, I run a little bit out of time. And again this requires a little bit of exploring and thinking. But yeah, you're 100. The triangle does not signify something clear for the user. Maybe a little bit more of exploration. If this is the UI that you guys would like to go on will be worth exploring or how can we better describe that function to the user? Did I make sense with everything that I said?

00:23:32

Simone Torrey: Yeah, yeah.

00:23:34

Adam Rose: I just don't know that we've, I don't know that we've been clear or we have. We collectively clearly decided know we've been flip flopping between these two approaches. Right. It's either sort of a mode setting or this button switching thing. Right. And, and we've, you know, I think both could totally work depending on a couple things. Like maybe it's sort of summarizing what's in Slack already but like is someone going to go into a multi turn advice session? Right. And to me that lends itself to saying okay, like I actually want to switch over to the advice agent and I don't know that that's really true in terms of how people actually use it. Right.

00:24:18

Adam Rose: And certainly what Rourke's original point was if you really have sort of like different almost like moods or something like that, like I want you to just hear me, right? Like I don't need any, I just need a listener or I want someone to bounce ideas, I want you to ask questions or I want you to be my accountability buddy. You know, I could see that being a really good case for having a really clear mode designator. Right.

00:24:42

Simone Torrey: Currently we're not set up exactly. Currently we're set up for Alex default mode being listening and asking questions.

00:24:52

Adam Rose: Right.

00:24:53

Simone Torrey: And Then we need a way to specifically, you know, bring in advice.

00:24:59

Adam Rose: Exactly, yeah. So for me, this feels probably like the place to start. Now, we can keep it in mind that there might be more modes coming or in Rosebud, when you click Suggest, it actually pops open a set of selections because it's saying suggest next steps. Suggest. I don't remember what they are, but there's four or five options of what you're asking for a suggestion for. That might be the logical next step that we actually get to. But I think we want to test our way in and design for what we think people really need and are going to use. So I think I'm leaning towards doing. Ivan, what you've revon what you're saying is like the. Basically just what we need right now.

00:25:41

Adam Rose: Let's not assume we need more than we actually have and we can always iterate when we need it, but I'd rather test into that and be sure we need it.

00:25:52

Simone Torrey: I have one other suggestion or like, desire for. So currently the text input box is really small, which kind of suggests to the user, keep yourself short like a text. Whereas that's not necessarily what we're wanting to suggest.

00:26:14

Adam Rose: It's a good point.

00:26:15

Simone Torrey: I think it would better to see, you know, to. To suggest like, hey, you know, you can talk here. You can like write more of your feelings or of your problem, your context, because it will need some context to give to have a better conversation.

00:26:33

Adam Rose: Yeah. Like, even if you, like, wrapped and expanded it or something. I think that's my. If I read what you're saying, Simone, it's even the subliminal suggestion. A larger box suggests, like. No, no. Like, use words.

00:26:47

Simone Torrey: Yeah, yeah. Like, if you look at Rosebud, you know, it has kind of like a open. Bigger open box.

00:26:55

James Redenbaugh: Yeah.

00:26:55

Adam Rose: I'm trying to remember, is it like three lines? I'm curious how many lines it. Wait, no, it's a big box.

00:27:02

Simone Torrey: Yeah.

00:27:02

Adam Rose: It opens up a whole screen, basically.

00:27:04

Simone Torrey: Well, it becomes smaller when you know, it's like half the screen. I don't know if you guys can see that.

00:27:10

Adam Rose: Right. Oh, right. It's text. And then right underneath it says. Right, yeah. So it's basically giving you as much space as you need.

00:27:20

Iván Lopez: Yeah. Like giving you a kind of a. An open space where you can actually, I. I didn't like it a lot. I was trying to play with a version of that with Rosebud, where it's not like an input, just like. Okay. An open space where you can start typing and you'll get a response after that. Actually, again, I thought it would be interesting to add, like, okay, which type of response Alex is giving to you? Okay, Alex is reflecting on you and you like, okay, Alex is giving advice. But I got more curious. Maybe you can enter here a little bit. Adam, I was not well, I haven't wrapped my head around how this interfy interface could work in a sense of HTML, for example, because previously we have an input field, we can get that value.

00:28:25

Iván Lopez: I wasn't so clear, like, okay, if I start to write like a bunch of text in here, how could we like identify it to have to get it last as an input, Am I right?

00:28:38

Simone Torrey: I don't think it's necessary to know whether Alex is reflecting or giving advice. I don't think it matters that much. I don't, I don't think we need to identify that like just maybe a little more clearly. This is Alex's response, this is yours. And people might want to copy and paste or we might want to, you know, take mem. Put some stuff in the memory.

00:29:12

Adam Rose: Right, yeah, agreed. I, and I'm just, you know, to answer your question, I assume you would only ever be typing in the bottom. If you did it that way, it would really be at the end of the chat that you would be typing. Right. So I would assume you'd have to just have some kind of, like, it would still be a div or something on the page that you would be, you know, like, it just would be hidden. It would just look like it's integrated into the conversation as you're typing. But I think we're, I think text box is pretty much though a tried and sort of understood paradigm. Like, I think anytime you start introducing a brand new way to interact with something like this, you also risk like confusing people.

00:29:56

Simone Torrey: Confusion.

00:29:57

Adam Rose: Yeah, Like, I think if you, if we do end up, I think we're going to need something. I don't know that there's going to be some icon that is going to really convey like advice. So I think we're going to need some button that's probably bigger, whether it's two words or one word. But I think kind of like to your WhatsApp paradigm, like, as soon as you start typing, it can shrink, right. And turn into the arrow. So I think we just need to figure out how do we make that box, you know, bigger just so that it welcomes a little more input and whether that advice button then needs to sort of live underneath, you know what I mean? Like, if you Made that box bigger. Well, all of a sudden you've got this big horizontal thing here and the box gets deep.

00:30:43

Adam Rose: So we'll just need to play around with the layout there and figure out, I think what. But I like this paradigm for right now, like some advice button. But then as soon as they type it turns back into the arrow. And that way you can never get both at the same time. And I think it'll just whether. I just need to figure out underneath whether if that goes to a totally different endpoint or does it send some fixed text? Because if they just hit an advice button, they haven't actually sent any text. So it means we're getting advice on the previous set of like some number of conversation turns, right? So Alex has to figure out like, okay, what are you asking for advice on?

00:31:28

Adam Rose: And we might actually even need a confirmation pass where it might have to kind of distill that down and say, okay, I think you're asking me, is this what you're asking for some advice on? Like it might need to actually get confirmation.

00:31:44

Simone Torrey: So you guys, the other thing that we haven't talked about yet, which you don't really have with a regular cloud or chat GPT but you have with Rosebud is like, so RoseBud always has two buttons. One is saying go deeper. The other one's saying finish entry. And when you went, if you go to the next one, either go deeper or suggest is like the bite, right? Like it's either one or the other. It's not both. Like, do we, are we planning on also having some kind of wrap it up finish, you know, button where we then producing a summary after. Or is that a whole other thing?

00:32:31

Adam Rose: Well, I think that's probably a whole lot.

00:32:33

Simone Torrey: It is, it is nice to give the user a choice, right? To like clearly, okay, now I'm stopping this. I'm, I'm going to wrap it up and have some closure, right? Because then it's, you know, it's not just this open ended, blah, but it's like finish of a session. But yeah, I don't know what else that entails in the back end.

00:32:59

Adam Rose: Yeah, well, it's also there's interplay there, that opening screen, right? It's like do I start a new conversation or am I resuming, you know, there's, I think we need to think that whole thing through because I think that also is a dovetail into like sort of the planning figure phase, right, of saying, okay, I'm Finished reflecting now I actually want to go and do things in the world. So I think my take is for this prototype, we don't do that because I don't even. We haven't even talked about it. But what I think there's going to be more needed on the back end to really do that well or to do that properly. Like, well, okay, you're finished now. What?

00:33:36

Iván Lopez: Yeah, I will even suggest, like, okay, this is something that, as you said, it will be nice to have, but for the moment we could focus, like having something that it's already working and it looks nice.

00:33:52

Adam Rose: Yeah.

00:33:53

Iván Lopez: And ones that we. We make sure that, okay, what we have for the moment is working. We can keep exploring some new feature or different approach, but the ones that we make sure that what we have already, it's is working. Right?

00:34:11

Adam Rose: Yeah.

00:34:12

Iván Lopez: Maybe to. Maybe to not be like, diverging too much or thinking on new features where we still haven't make it, like working yet.

00:34:23

Simone Torrey: Well, the reason why I brought it up is because those are two buttons, right. And so you just switch one rather than trying to think how you go from a little arrow to suddenly a text box. Because you need the text with suggest and with the arrow, it's clear what it is.

00:34:43

Adam Rose: Right.

00:34:44

Simone Torrey: That's part of why I was bringing it up.

00:34:46

Adam Rose: But yeah, so one thing that is different here, I think, is also that blue text, I'm just trying to discern. Okay, that's. It's coming back. Okay. I was wondering whether that was when.

00:35:01

Simone Torrey: Blue is always rose bud.

00:35:03

Adam Rose: Yeah. Okay, so that suggest shows up when. If you were to start, like, sorry, I can't see it anymore, Suggest. Or in a sentry, where go deeper shows up when. When does it switch to suggest?

00:35:18

Simone Torrey: Go to the. Yeah. No, to the other side. Yeah, when. What? Before I'm typing, it says go deeper. Or while I'm typing. No, while I'm typing. Before I'm typing, there's the suggest option. When you start typing, then it goes into the suggest switches into go deeper.

00:35:41

Adam Rose: So the go deeper is essentially their arrow. It's saying, okay, you want to submit text and get another response back, yes, rosebud. And then suggest is. Yeah, okay, so that's the. Exactly the same way that we're talking about. I was thinking, was it. Were you providing text and. And then saying suggest, meaning that somehow the text you're providing is what you're asking for. Suggestion.

00:36:04

Simone Torrey: No. Okay, so it's when you don't know what to say, like, tell me what to do. Yeah, just give me a Suggestion.

00:36:11

Adam Rose: Right. Okay.

00:36:16

James Redenbaugh: That.

00:36:17

Adam Rose: Yeah. And again this. I think it's great that we've talk through a bunch of options but I think in terms of what we're doing right now, we don't have more than basically like send a text in or give me some advice. So I think we should stick to that for now.

00:36:36

Iván Lopez: I will.

00:36:36

Simone Torrey: So maybe we just switch it between reflect and suggest. Reflect. Suggest. So it's. I know you like just the icon, but we're also not WhatsApp.

00:36:49

Iván Lopez: No, I understand. We could totally go with that.

00:36:55

Adam Rose: Right. Cool, cool.

00:37:08

Iván Lopez: Actually I wanted to go a bit back. It seems correct if I'm wrong. We still like discussing how the flow of the user will go. I don't know if you guys have already defined or there's something. Oops. There are some steps that would you like to add but I think will be. It will be good if we can have it as best defined as possible. Like okay, how does this flow look? Okay. And then the. The login. If it's the first time it will take you to the questions the conversation. I think in this case there will be just like one button. If you're logged in once, take a breath and let in the chat screen. But yeah, I will. I just would like to take it back here a little bit for you.

00:38:13

Iván Lopez: For us to ask you guys if this will be like the flow that will we the user will follow or are there things that you would like to explore a little bit of how the flow will go. Did I made sense?

00:38:32

Simone Torrey: Yeah, you did. We're thinking.

00:38:41

Iván Lopez: Again this is not like I need answer now but like were talking to have it best defined. We already have something some things built in webflow. We already have some designs here. Okay. As were talking at. To have something that just works and that keeps blurring later. Okay. This is the flow that we. We will like the user to follow to again just. Just try to have it and build it as fast as we can so we can explore later. But to already have something like tangible so to.

00:39:21

Simone Torrey: Yeah, I mean for me the. The only open question is so you know, obviously this is something we can just like come up with. Like right now we would have to like discuss this a little further and I would rather say let's keep it at this. Let's not keep adding. The only thing I do want to make sure we add something. If we ask people questions beforehand then what are we going to do with that information? Like if we're not going to do anything with that information or ask an after, then I'd rather not ask it. Like, somehow we need to think that flow through. Right. There's these questions, these onboarding questions that we're asking. Where's that information going? What are we going to do with it? And what's going to happen with it at the end? Like, is there and what.

00:40:18

Simone Torrey: What signals the end? But that's something I think Adam and I need to discuss. And then.

00:40:28

Adam Rose: Yeah, well, it's a good point. And again, like, are we even. Even if we did what. Depending on what information we're even asking for. But are we even doing anything with it right now? Right. Like, should we even. Do we need to do that for this next round? Right. Are we just trying to get people to use it and.

00:40:49

Simone Torrey: Well, those are the impact questions, and I've sent them to you.

00:40:53

Adam Rose: Okay.

00:40:54

Simone Torrey: So you know what they are. And they. They are meant to before and after.

00:41:01

Adam Rose: Oh, okay. I misunderstood what you're saying then. Yes, we should ask the same questions again at the end. Yeah, but how do we measure the end? Or is it.

00:41:11

Simone Torrey: Yeah.

00:41:11

Adam Rose: Or how do we trigger the signal. Signal that it is the end? Or do we ask it every couple weeks or something like that?

00:41:19

Simone Torrey: Yeah. And is that a nest, like, is that an app thing? Or are we sending them a survey? You know?

00:41:26

Adam Rose: Right.

00:41:29

Simone Torrey: Yeah. So that's. That's, that's just something we need to figure out. It's just whenever you ask people to fill out information, you don't just want to do that superfluously. That's just not respectful in my book.

00:41:46

Iván Lopez: Yeah, I totally get it. Cool.

00:41:51

Simone Torrey: So. But it seems like we're all not. We all don't. Like, we currently don't have a trigger mechanism for the end. For an end. So then the answer is we'll send them a survey.

00:42:12

Adam Rose: Yeah, we need to. I think we need to get clear about what we even. Well, again, are we. Are we saying we for sure don't want to be asking periodically? Have we decided that? Because last time you, Sean and I talked, we sort of said that might be the way to do it. Why don't we talk about it offline? Because. Agreed. Like, we need. We need if it's in the app or not. But either way, like, we need to figure out, well, if it's in the app.

00:42:45

Simone Torrey: What I heard Ivan asking was, are these the screens for prototype number one, or are there. Will there be any additional requests?

00:42:57

Adam Rose: Right.

00:42:58

Simone Torrey: Was that your question?

00:42:59

Iván Lopez: Right.

00:43:00

Simone Torrey: And so.

00:43:00

Iván Lopez: Yeah, exactly.

00:43:01

Simone Torrey: Can we just call it. Can we just say, no, these are the things. Make them as good as you can. And then we'll call it a day for prototype, you know, for this next prototype and we'll just work with this.

00:43:20

Iván Lopez: Yeah.

00:43:22

Adam Rose: So the thing that is not get clear to me with this is what do we do with conversations, right? Like having a. Start a new conversation. This is stuff I haven't a chance to really dig into. But like, again, if we're going to start a new conversation, well, how do I can I see my old conversation anymore? Right? Like what is that? It implies that there's a thing called a conversation. That is a thing that I can presumably should be able to access somewhere. So I'm even wondering like, you know, like our bare minimum to just have something working and maybe this is the thing to do. Just we can decide whether this is what we actually go and test with, but would be to just focus on login. Assume the survey is out of the app.

00:44:11

Adam Rose: Assume we always just resume the previous conversation. We do the breathe. The briefing, I think is defined because it's just a client side thing. I don't think there's any back end and go to chat. That's like our basic app that work, like, do you know what I mean? And then we can decide, well, do we really need to resume a conversation or be able to see old conversations? Yes, we really need that. So let's get that working. Do we need to integrate the survey? Okay, let's add that in. But to get something working end to end. I think what I just described is sort of the bare minimum.

00:44:45

Simone Torrey: Like, but you were talking then. Not this prototype, not the one that we're releasing now.

00:44:54

Adam Rose: I'm, I'm just saying we can decide whether we release it, but I'm saying that's the bare minimum to get. If we wanted to get something working end to end, that's like the bare, that's the bare minimum. Right, Right. Now if you log in or you use the same username, you just get dropped back into your old conversation.

00:45:11

Iván Lopez: Right.

00:45:12

Adam Rose: I have not built anything to delineate the notion of a new conversation from the same user. Right. So I'm just saying, like we should get something that works end to end, even if it's not everything, even if it doesn't have all the features that we think we want to actually go test with.

00:45:30

Simone Torrey: Okay, Adam, but you do understand that this is a screen that Ivan and James have put, you know. Yeah, I'm not saying work into. So of course. So we need a different process of conversing about what we're building if there's no back end to it?

00:45:50

Adam Rose: Because I'm not saying we're not doing it. I'm just saying if like, generally it's good to get something working and then you add things to it. I'm not saying we're throwing anything out. I'm just saying, like the flow could be, okay, we're going to come back to this, but I'd rather have something working end to end that I could actually open my web browser and say, hey, look at our. Look at our product. Right? And then we can add these things in and say, okay, now we really need to survey there before we go test it with people, so let's get that working. So I'm not suggesting we're throwing anything away. I'm just saying.

00:46:24

Simone Torrey: But you did see that the screen, the conversation screen is already in webflow?

00:46:32

Adam Rose: Yeah.

00:46:33

Simone Torrey: Is it or not? Okay, so rather than. Then I don't understand what you're saying because it seems like you're saying let's throw it away rather than let's figure out how we make it work.

00:46:50

Adam Rose: Okay, guys, keep me honest. If this is like I'm suggesting something that's a lot of. I'm like, I'm not suggesting go reworking anything. I'm suggesting you go from this screen to that screen. Like, you skip that. I'm not, I don't think anything I'm suggesting is a lot of work or throwaway work.

00:47:05

James Redenbaugh: But keep. I think, I think I'm hearing you. And perhaps we should have a shared kanban of the features that we're talking about and a clear sense of which we should prioritize when so that we get like auth and sign up figured out. Add that to the prototype. That that's already working and other things we can keep developing. But we know that there's, you know, we know together what's priority.

00:47:49

Adam Rose: Yeah, I think what's. It's very natural. And what happens with when you start seeing things in design sessions is feature creepy, right? It's like, oh, yeah, we really want that. Oh, and because you start seeing like where the flow becomes unnatural or natural. So I just want to, I don't want to shut that down. Like, that's. To me, that's invaluable. I just want to. We need to be clear about like, this is the first deliverable, this is the next deliverable. So I'm totally open to how you want to capture that, James, but I think you're right. Like, we had the document that we Started that took another pass on and put a bunch of detail in whether we want to turn those into a Kanban board or something.

00:48:27

Adam Rose: But just so we don't oscillate on Scope too much or we're clear if we want to change it because yeah, I don't want to. I don't. I don't want you guys thrashing either.

00:48:40

Iván Lopez: No, I will add to that. It will be more like. Thanks, Simone, for having consideration of us. Yeah, this is work that we already done, so to speak. But it wouldn't be like that big of a compromise if something that we already built is not used for the moment right now because, for example, we haven't built again, like the whole feature and how the app will work at the end. And also because, well, I will say this is not about us as the Iris team, but it will be on you and Adam and all the team like, okay, what is what we want for the first prototype to have and to have that the best ideas possible so you can bring it to us. Okay, this is specifically what we'll be focusing for the first version.

00:49:48

Iván Lopez: Focusing of our efforts on what you already have discussed of. Okay, this is what we need for this first version. A little bit of what Adam said. Like, okay, in the simplest terms, we will need like A, B and C. There's something you would like to see added, Simon. Well, that's an internal conversation that you must have. But for us to have the clear path of okay, for this version, we need specifically this focus on that for us to have something, build it and working and then to keep exploring after that. Okay, we like this. We don't like this. We see how users are interacting with this feature. Is this being used or if it isn't, do you think it were? But those are questions that, as Adam said, will come after we have already spent time designing and build the thing.

00:50:46

Iván Lopez: Because I think we could. We may be able to keep thinking ahead and start thinking of things, but we haven't. If we do not have something built or functioning right now, it will be test. It will be hard to test some of these ideas if my work or if we want to add or something like that. That's what I said. That's what I said. That, that the best that you can clarify that to us, like, okay, this is the flow the user will follow and it goes ahead with you what you want the user to see and to implement. It's like, okay, we're good, we focus on that. We say what we can from what we already built to have again something built and working as soon as we can.

00:51:38

Adam Rose: Yeah. Can I. It is worth clarifying though, because I want to be sure that I'm not getting this wrong. If even if you build out a screen and webflow right, like, you're, you might potentially not ever navigate to it. Right. Or you might like, you just got to obviously change the transition steps. And I'm not familiar enough with webflow to know, you know, if we say, oh, take the screen out for now, skip this step or add this step in, you know, how much change are we talking about? Because I obviously, you know, I want to just. It's a good point. I, you know, definitely want to be sensitive to when we make those decisions.

00:52:18

Iván Lopez: Again, as I said previously, we haven't built like something that complex. So for the moment, these are just buttons that are linked to the page of menuscript.

00:52:29

Adam Rose: So you'd have to go to each button and potentially like change where it was navigating to.

00:52:34

Iván Lopez: Yeah. But in this case we have just like two buttons and in case, like, okay, we want to save the menu screen for a little bit later. Okay. We just change the links and we go to the menu screen and we just added as draft and that will be.

00:52:52

Adam Rose: So obviously if it was a big complex page with all kinds of different ways to nav, it could be complicated to change those transitions, but right now it's pretty straightforward.

00:53:01

Iván Lopez: Yeah.

00:53:02

Adam Rose: Okay.

00:53:03

Iván Lopez: Yeah.

00:53:03

Adam Rose: I just want to make sure, because I think you're touching on. We're going to be wanting to build stuff out in webflow and testing it before it ever sees a customer. Right. So we just don't want to be. I just want to make sure we're clear on like, what, what's generally involved in that. Right. So that we're not.

00:53:22

Iván Lopez: Yeah.

00:53:22

James Redenbaugh: And we can always, you know, to not. We can have live site updates and then we can have just pages on the website that are password protected or not linked anywhere else where we test things out and we can have as many of those as we want.

00:53:43

Adam Rose: Okay.

00:53:43

Simone Torrey: So I don't know if this makes sense, but just from a workload, your workload perspective, I think it would make more sense for us to go figma, agreed, approved, then webflow and then everything else. Right. So for you guys to not like run ahead because you want to show us something and then we're like, oh, actually we don't have anywhere to send the, you know, like we just did. Like, that's why I got a little. Because I Just don't like to waste. I don't. I don't like to waste work. That's the value of mine. So sorry if I got a little.

00:54:21

Adam Rose: Tense there, but valid point. Ivan's got to be on the beach. He doesn't have time.

00:54:26

Simone Torrey: Yeah, waste.

00:54:28

Iván Lopez: It's okay. I'm cooling. Like, what's everything to do? Bring it. It's okay. I. I understand, Simone. Thankfully we'll still like at an early stage, so it's not like the work we have done so far even in webflow is like, oh, like too much taking that.

00:54:51

Simone Torrey: So don't spend any more time on that triangle. Turning triangle for now.

00:54:56

Adam Rose: Okay.

00:54:57

Iván Lopez: Okay.

00:54:58

Simone Torrey: For how fun that is, James, just.

00:55:00

Adam Rose: Go fix it when nobody's looking. Yeah.

00:55:07

Simone Torrey: Okay, you guys, I. I gotta hop off. Are we. What are our next steps?

00:55:14

James Redenbaugh: Yeah, so I think we should set up some more context in Figma so that we know what we're prioritizing and then what is like future ideas. And so immediate next step would be get as clear as we can get together on what we should be prioritizing. What can we build in. In Webflower? What needs more thinking in Figma? And you guys can add comments in there.

00:55:49

Adam Rose: And can I add one thought to that? James, I really like what you suggested. Maybe rather, you know, I heard conv on board and I'm thinking, oh God, we have another tool to manage versus like, maybe it's just different pages, right? Like one page in figma, this is the bare bones one page, here's the survey flow, another page, here's, you know, feature X. Right. And then we can be really clear about. So it's not all jumbled in one spot. I really like that.

00:56:18

James Redenbaugh: Yeah, yeah, we can just use Figma and whether we use different pages or different sections on a big page, we can zoom out. But yeah, I think that's a good idea. And we can use comments or some kind of signifier to see like. Okay, let's build this out in webflow now.

00:56:37

Adam Rose: Yeah.

00:56:38

James Redenbaugh: Yeah. Cool.

00:56:39

Adam Rose: Awesome.

00:56:40

Iván Lopez: Yeah, I think we can set up a kind of a system here in Figma. And if I smile, as you can see, there's a lot of stuff already. So we can add. As just said, Simone, we can add Play Edit before we can step into building. So we can. I don't know if in this page of figmo or maybe a new one, but to have like a system that like, okay, this is what we plan for version one. This is our, like, yeah. For version two, etc. Etc.

00:57:10

James Redenbaugh: Cool, great.

00:57:14

Adam Rose: Cool. Good progress. It sounds like we decided some version of button for advice versus modes. We won't flip flop on that anytime soon again. So. Yeah, I don't. I'm trying to think if there's anything else you guys. Okay, I'll stop talking in terms of. I'm just trying to think what is next on your plate? Are you designing still future things? Are there things that you need now that you're either blocked on or I'm.

00:57:48

Simone Torrey: Gonna leave you to that. And I'll. I'll hop off because I have another call coming on. Bye, you guys.

00:57:53

Adam Rose: Cool.

00:57:55

Iván Lopez: Nice to see you.

00:58:00

James Redenbaugh: So you're figuring out the Auth situation. You can let us know when you're ready to have us get that working with webflow and you can tell us what should be priority right now.

00:58:26

Adam Rose: Yeah, I mean, I guess I. I think Auth is the main thing. I guess the one thing we could design out is the feedback buttons. Right. Is how do we want to, you know, thumbs up, thumbs down, text modal. So we could design that stuff. That is. But I like the idea of taking the bare bones thing would be Auth. Literally, the bare bones thing would be off conversation. Right. You just drops you back into your. And then each one of these things could be layered on as an incremental feature. But I like the idea of talking about those in isolation a little bit and make sure we think it through.

00:59:05

James Redenbaugh: Yeah.

00:59:06

Adam Rose: Cool. So the suggestion stuff we could again think of as a separate feature. I know we're going to need that before we go test with people because the whole point is to get feedback, but we could absolutely go design that stuff. Do you want me to send you the details on what I'd written up on that stuff? It's just a few paragraphs or something. Not even. It's pretty minimal.

00:59:28

James Redenbaugh: Yeah, sure.

00:59:29

Adam Rose: Okay. Should I just drop it in Slack or should I. We don't really have like a shared.

00:59:36

Iván Lopez: Slack will be good.

00:59:38

James Redenbaugh: Yeah, you can drop it inside.

00:59:39

Adam Rose: Okay. Okay, cool.

00:59:43

Iván Lopez: But in that case, I think it's good that we already have a page build for the Auth. I mean, we can already get to play to that.

00:59:54

Adam Rose: Yeah. Yeah. And I know we will absolutely use all of this stuff. It's just a question of when I have the back end ready to even. Cool. Great.

01:00:09

Iván Lopez: As we talk, we know that when we start seeing things and we can get a little bit excited of ideas. It's like we do not have something built already.

01:00:22

Adam Rose: We can imagine all kinds of things.

01:00:24

Iván Lopez: Yeah. You're already thinking like, oh yeah, when we make an offer, a public offer for the market shares. We don't have a name for the product.

01:00:35

Adam Rose: Can we do. Alex is android, and it's. You know, you can customize its hair color, right? Yeah, we'll get there eventually.

01:00:47

James Redenbaugh: Great.

01:00:48

Adam Rose: Yeah. All right. Awesome, guys. Okie dokie. All right, we'll talk soon.

01:00:53

James Redenbaugh: Talk to you soon.

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